The Rise of Hitler and The Age of Trump: A Comparison

Monica 56 said:
I love surreal comedy .

Sleepy the Puppet Pres is already looking more and more like a budding Dictator than Trump ever did
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Bw... bwh... bwhahahahahahahahahahaha! OMFSM bwhahahahahahaha! That is ******* hilarious!!!

I'll bet you're actually spouting this crap with a straight face too!
 
newyorkguy said:
Remember the 'information revolution?' We should have been careful about what we wished for, because as it turned out, we got it. And then some. (There were those who thought they saw this coming and tried to sound the alarm.)
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JoeFDRwinston.jpg
 
Stacyhs said:
Bob001 linked this article in another thread and I found it so interesting and relevant that I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

We are so reluctant to mention Hitler and the rise of Naziism when it comes to discussing Trump and the current direction of the GOP because of the inevitable protests and accusations of "drama" and "hyperbole" from the conservatives that we generally avoid doing so. However, the events of the past year, and especially the last 6-7 months, have shown a clear correlation between what happened in Germany starting in the early 1920's and what is happening here now. In the linked article, historian Benjamin Carter Hett, who has authored several books on the rise of Nazi Germany, discusses how the Nazis took over the German government, not by force, but from within and how our own democracy is in danger of the same authoritarian takeover from within.


Hett answers several questions and makes equally disturbing observations in the rest of the article. Among those questions:

1) As a historian of modern Germany, what did you see when you watched the events of Jan. 6?

2) What parallels do you see between Trump and the larger right-wing movement's use of the Big Lie, as compared to the way Hitler and the Nazis used it?

Liz Cheney tried to warn her GOP colleagues that they are endangering the very democracy they say they are defending and she was punished for speaking truth to power. How can McConnell, McCarthy and so many other GOP Congress members NOT see just how dangerous their support of Trump's Big Lie is to our very democracy? How can they care so little for our country?
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Here's another one that takes it back a bit further, to 1918.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Agreed, and to add. There's also not a similar level of outright revolutionary activity. You don't see Freikorps and communists fighting for literal control of cities and regions of the country. Hitler's grabs for power were among many other similar attempts, often with individual cities or regions briefly being declared independent sovereignty under this or that communist or extreme right authority. Lots of street fighting over turf was happening.

The right wing also enjoyed extreme leniency from the judicial system. Failed right wing coups were not a disaster for these people because they often ended with lenient wrist-slap sentences. Hilter personally failed to seize government and rather than serving a long sentence and/or being deported back to Austria, he got a brief visit to a luxury prison giving him time to collect his thoughts, publish Mein Kampf, and be back in the action in a timely way. US cops are definitely showing a clear preference for extreme right politics, but above the street level I'm not seeing quite as much open enabling by our judicial system. J6 rioters are getting the book thrown at them.

Trump has his brownshirts in the form of fascist groups like the Proud Boys or III%er types, but while similar in type, there is no similarity in scale.

None of this is to diminish the threat that the extreme right poses to this country. Drawing parallels to history is a useful thought experiment, but there is no requirement for things to be an exact duplicate of the past to still happen. History rhymes but doesn't repeat.

More broadly, the attempts of MAGA fash to seize power can be compared to other fascist takeovers, not just to Hitler. I always found that Trump personally seems more like a bumbling, opportunistic Mussolini type rather than a dyed in the wool ideologue like Hilter.
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Good points.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Agreed, and to add. There's also not a similar level of outright revolutionary activity. You don't see Freikorps and communists fighting for literal control of cities and regions of the country. Hitler's grabs for power were among many other similar attempts, often with individual cities or regions briefly being declared independent sovereignty under this or that communist or extreme right authority. Lots of street fighting over turf was happening.

The right wing also enjoyed extreme leniency from the judicial system. Failed right wing coups were not a disaster for these people because they often ended with lenient wrist-slap sentences. Hilter personally failed to seize government and rather than serving a long sentence and/or being deported back to Austria, he got a brief visit to a luxury prison giving him time to collect his thoughts, publish Mein Kampf, and be back in the action in a timely way. US cops are definitely showing a clear preference for extreme right politics, but above the street level I'm not seeing quite as much open enabling by our judicial system. J6 rioters are getting the book thrown at them.

Trump has his brownshirts in the form of fascist groups like the Proud Boys or III%er types, but while similar in type, there is no similarity in scale.

None of this is to diminish the threat that the extreme right poses to this country. Drawing parallels to history is a useful thought experiment, but there is no requirement for things to be an exact duplicate of the past to still happen. History rhymes but doesn't repeat.

More broadly, the attempts of MAGA fash to seize power can be compared to other fascist takeovers, not just to Hitler. I always found that Trump personally seems more like a bumbling, opportunistic Mussolini type rather than a dyed in the wool ideologue like Hilter.
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I agree with Venom, good points, however, many of the political and social conditions that existed in the Weimar Republic, in the 1920s & 30s, exist now in the USA of the 2010s & 20s

The Big Lies:
1920s Dolchstosslegende, the "stab-in-the-back" lie, that victory in WW1 was stolen from Germany
2020s The stolen Election, the victory was stolen from trump

Overt Patriotism:
1933 25-Punkte-Programm, the 25 point program for extreme German nationalism.
2018 America First (its worth noting the the "America First" slogan was coined by William Randolph Hearst, a US Nazi sympathiser)

Leader disparaging the press:
1930s Hitler used the term Lügenpresse, literally 'press of lies' to describe the mass media
2010s Trump calls the media "Fake News" and the "Enemy of the People"

Leader Admiring and/or associating with authoritarian leaders:
1930s Hitler with Mussolini, Hirohito, (and before WW2) Stalin
2010s Trump with Putin, Erdogan & Duterte

There are other things too

The Racism
The Anti-Semitism
The riots and violent clashes between opposing political ideologies
The Political Tribalism
The belief that white people are being replaced (the Jews will not replace us)
Mexicans are the new boogeyman (it was Jews in 1930's Germany)

With all the voter suppression laws and anti civil-rights laws that are currently being passed in swing states and Democratic states with Republican Legislatures, it not beyond reason that so many Democratic voters will be prevented from voting, that Republicans could win back states with as little as 20% of the electorate or less. I have no doubt that Republican politicians are literally willing to take a wrecking ball to the US electoral system in order to get back into power, and then undertake whatever corrupt actions they deem necessary to keep it.

Am I saying that the USA is going to become a right wing dictatorship tomorrow. No, but the conditions are in place, and the warning signs are there - ignore them at your peril...

You have a Democracy right now... the question is, can you keep it!?
 
What Trump is offering has been called Sadopopulism - instead of offering benefits to the Majority, Trump and most Republicans are offering pain to Minorities.
 
Mexicans are the new boogeyman (it was Jews in 1930's Germany)
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It's not just the Mexicans; it's any "other", especially a non-light skinned "other". Just as the Nazis spread fear of the "other" so do the far right fear mongers. Just listen to Trump going on about the (white) suburbs being destroyed and you know he's talking about Blacks.
 
Belz... said:
Asserting things does not make it true. Your problem is accepting these statements without any verification.
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Your huge problem is not bothering to look at matters before making your pronouncements even though a full reference is available .

You need to be constantly spoon fed as do Gullibles in general . As for even looking at anything outside of your world view comfort zone -- apparently impossible .
 
smartcooky said:
Bw... bwh... bwhahahahahahahahahahaha! OMFSM bwhahahahahahaha! That is ******* hilarious!!!

I'll bet you're actually spouting this crap with a straight face too!
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No , Mister Compliance Gullible .
I offered you a chance to expand your patently narrow mind- set and glance at something which has been very well researched .
In fairness your type of petty troll like comment was something which was certain to appear . I hoped individuals like yourself were more mature and eager to look at possibly new dimensions to subjects they assumed were ' cut and dried" .
 
Bob001 said:
Why do you believe this demented garbage? Seriously. What is are the sources of "information" that you rely on?
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It's hardly surprising you react this way when you cannot even be bothered to notice the reference , let alone check out the full report and details .Before producing your asinine verdict .

Bluntly , the original paper is far too long , detailed and complex for the vast majority here to successfully grapple with .
Try reading it and let us know where you disagree with the findings and why . One point will be sufficient .
 
Monica 56 said:
No , Mister Compliance Gullible .
I offered you a chance to expand your patently narrow mind- set and glance at something which has been very well researched .
In fairness your type of petty troll like comment was something which was certain to appear . I hoped individuals like yourself were more mature and eager to look at possibly new dimensions to subjects they assumed were ' cut and dried" .
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OOOh... Monica 56 called me a troll... now there's a badge of honour!!
 
Monica 56 said:
It's hardly surprising you react this way when you cannot even be bothered to notice the reference , let alone check out the full report and details .Before producing your asinine verdict .

Bluntly , the original paper is far too long , detailed and complex for the vast majority here to successfully grapple with .
Try reading it and let us know where you disagree with the findings and why . One point will be sufficient .
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Garbage doesn't deserve to be treated as evidence or research.
 
smartcooky said:
OOOh... Monica 56 called me a troll... now there's a badge of honour!!
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Introducing new and very differently sourced material is not Trolling . Making petty personal remarks is .
Plus second rate attempted deflection-- debate the message or put up .

If your disagree after due diligence , let me know of any points for rebuttal or points that you assert are just plain errors .

Total silence in that area so far .
Almost certainly because you have no inkling of what has been unearthed and is discussed by Mr Mathis .
More bloviation , methinks .
 
Monica 56 said:
Introducing new and very differently sourced material is not Trolling
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Err what... YOU called ME a troll, remember?


PS: I'm haven't seen you introduce anything "new" that I have seen and read before, and dismissed.

PPS: You have only made six posts in this thread

NONE of them have introduced anything "new and very differently sourced". In fact, you haven't linked a source for any of the bollocks you are spamming the thread with.
 
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smartcooky said:
Err what... YOU called ME a troll, remember?


PS: I'm have seen you introduce anything "new" that I have seen and read before, and dismissed.
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Half understood --- but from a corrected English translation .

More attempted deflection . Our differing views on Vortices several years ago somehow affects this matter ? Apologies for my near photographic memory .

Read the research paper or put up .

Your dismissal of things is in itself only their proof if you are a sufferer from the Messiah Complex .
I prefer factual evidence , reasoned support , testimony . Give them a try .

Must dash . One of the kids is choking -- one down and two to go .
 
smartcooky said:
[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2ubnw8oc3v3zzf/JoeFDRwinston.jpg?raw=1[/qimg]
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Even if you'd pick a picture where he doesn't look stark raving mad, say with other word leaders, he'd look small, defeated and uncomfortable. There's just no way to make the man look presidential.
 
Monica 56 said:
Your huge problem is not bothering to look at matters before making your pronouncements even though a full reference is available .
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How do you know I didn't look into it and just reached a different conclusion?

Your postings here have shown that your "sources" are ridiculously misinformed, or dishonest.

You need to be constantly spoon fed as do Gullibles in general . As for even looking at anything outside of your world view comfort zone -- apparently impossible .
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What an ironic statement. Do you ever look outside of your usual source of information? The statements you made about the mythical "MSM" indicate that you don't.

Don't accuse others of what you do. It's bad form. As for gullibles...

 
Monica 56 said:
Half understood --- but from a corrected English translation .
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Which means?

Monica 56 said:
More attempted deflection . Our differing views on Vortices several years ago somehow affects this matter ? Apologies for my near photographic memory
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How could we have had differing views "several years ago"? You've only been a member for two months. Very suspicious...

Monica 56 said:
Read the research paper or put up
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What research paper? You haven't linked to any research paper.
 
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