"Black" is a proper noun, but "white" isn't

[The Atheist]

...white folk with nothing better to do?

I'm pretty sure that describes over 90% of the people on the forum.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I disagree with that; in fact, whether that is or is not the case appears to be the very issue under debate in this thread.

It might be under debate by folks who don't know basic grammar rules about nouns and proper nouns.

It's like someone in this forum arguing wether to capitalize the Sun and the Moon while an astronomer has no such confusion. There is a sun in the center of a solar system. In our solar system we use the Sun as a proper noun. The Sun is a sun.

Just because some people don't understand a basic grammar rule doesn't make the issue uncertain.

The issue is not about capitalizing 'White' when it is used as a proper noun. The only question is under what circumstances is it a regular noun and under what circumstances is it a proper noun?

White can be a proper noun just as Black can be used as a regular noun.

 

[angrysoba]

If you are going to divide a group of people into some special Black group then by logic you have to do it with the rest.
Asain, Indian, Aborigini, Maori, Pacific Islanders, European (insert country), slightly brownish others.............

By logic! Ha!

Again, let me introduce you to the English language (or any natural language for that matter):

a pair of pants (plural)
a bra (singular)

Why? Why?

Language doesn't work "by logic" so your pointless objections are pointless.

 

[Venom]

‘I’m scared’: AP obtains video of deadly arrest of Black man

 

[d4m10n]

‘I’m scared’: AP obtains video of deadly arrest of Black man

It does seem a bit weird that they'd write it like this:

Ronald Greene can be heard telling the white troopers as the unarmed man is jolted repeatedly with a stun gun before he even gets out of his car along a dark, rural road.

I wonder what manual of style the AP is using...

 

[Emily's Cat]

When you capitalise Black, you're using the word in a similar way as Asian or Hispanic.

Doing the same for white is ... problematic.

I don't capitalize any of them when they're being used as adjectives. f course, I also don't capitalize religions either, but that's mostly because I don't feel that mormonism or catholicism or islam or zoorastrianism merit the respect of proper noun status

 

[Emily's Cat]

It's probably more complicated, but I think there's very few people in the Western world who actively "identify" as White.

Compare White pride vs. Black pride.

Most people don't "identify" as any of their physical characteristics. My dad doesn't "identify" as black, he simply has a high concentration of melanin and is of imported African ancestry, with a dash of Cherokee tossed in for good measure.

 

[Emily's Cat]

That approach doesn't make sense for someone like my mother, who is descended from Irish, Scottish, English, Swedish, and a smattering of Eastern European folks, including Ashkenazim. It makes even less sense for my kids, who've got several other European nations in the mix (along with other continents).

I identify as APFA: Amalgamated Pale-Face Ancestry

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't capitalize any of them when they're being used as adjectives. f course, I also don't capitalize religions either, but that's mostly because I don't feel that mormonism or catholicism or islam or zoorastrianism merit the respect of proper noun status

So you wouldn't capitalize the adjective American as in American woman?

It's bloody grammar, not a fashion statement.

 

[Emily's Cat]

So you wouldn't capitalize the adjective American as in American woman?

It's bloody grammar, not a fashion statement.

I'll capitalize the names of countries. Countries are proper nouns. I don't capitalize race identifiers.

 

[d4m10n]

I don't capitalize race identifiers.

Do you capitalize ethnic identifiers, e.g. Afro Caribbean or Irish American?

 

[p0lka]

coming over here... nicking our capital letters

 

[p0lka]

If you are going to divide a group of people into some special Black group then by logic you have to do it with the rest.

Asain, Indian, Aborigini, Maori, Pacific Islanders, European (insert country), slightly brownish others.............

Dads side are all irish, mums side are all scottish, they met in england and dropped me and siblings, so i'm english.
Please for the love of god let me be scottish or irish, i'm actually embarrassed.

 

[angrysoba]

It does seem a bit weird that they'd write it like this:



I wonder what manual of style the AP is using...

Wonder no more...

NEW YORK (AP) — After changing its usage rules last month to capitalize the word “Black” when used in the context of race and culture, The Associated Press on Monday said it would not do the same for “white.”

The AP said white people in general have much less shared history and culture, and don’t have the experience of being discriminated against because of skin color.

Protests following the death of George Floyd, which led to discussions of policing and Confederate symbols, also prompted many news organizations to examine their own practices and staffing. The Associated Press, whose Stylebook is widely influential in the industry, announced June 19 it would make Black uppercase.

Link

Answer: they use their own (as many news organizations do).

 

[Emily's Cat]

Do you capitalize ethnic identifiers, e.g. Afro Caribbean or Irish American?

I'll have to think on that. I capitalize country names, so I would capitalize "Irish" and "Caribbean".

 

[d4m10n]

Wonder no more...



Link

"...white people in general have much less shared history and culture..."

Is that an empirically testable claim?

 

[Stout]

Answer: they use their own (as many news organizations do).

So a bit of corporate virtue signalling coupled with an irrational fear of being associated with white supremacy.

The AP said white people in general have much less shared history and culture

Yep, just as I predicted. Self hating whites.

Shared history ? You don't say.

 

[Venom]

Modern conceptions of race seem very Western-centric, particularly US-centric. This doesn't really apply to people without a long cultural history outside of the country. There is an illusion that white people in the U.S. are all the same. White people (Europe, North Africa, Black Sea, Asia Minor) having less shared history and culture was very true in the early 1900s but I'm not sure that is true today.

 

[The Atheist]

Something international readers won't realise is that if you refer to a Maori or Pasifika person as "black" they will very likely take offence.

The fact is exemplified neatly in Micheal Jones' (former All Black and rugby legend) autobiography, where he recounts playing against USA at the 1991 World Cup.

Jones overheard one of the American players warning a team-mate "Watch out for the black guy", meaning Jones. Jones took offence at that and called out to the guy: "You're a racist" upon which the bemused American ignored him.

Jones - being a good widdle christian - wasn't going to thump him, but decided to "smash" (his word) the American in a tackle next time he got the ball, and of course, did just that.

 

[angrysoba]

"...white people in general have much less shared history and culture..."

Is that an empirically testable claim?

I dunno. Your question was what style guide they used. You asked, and I answered.