Cryptocurrencies and the economy

Apparently my son's Ethereum investment has taken off.

CNN: Move over, bitcoin. Ethereum is at an all-time high
Ethereum, or ether for short, hit a new record high Monday of about $3,200. Ether prices have more than quadrupled in 2021, soaring 325%. Bitcoin has had a great run too this year, doubling in value.
The total value of all Ethereum in circulation is now about $367 billion, according to CoinMarketCap. Bitcoin's (XBT) market value is $1.1 trillion.
While there are thousands of cryptocurrencies -- including the Elon Musk tweet-fueled Dogecoin -- bitcoin and ether account for nearly two-thirds of the entire $2.3 trillion global crypto market.
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psionl0 said:
Are you interested in possible solutions to the problem or is the sole purpose of this thread to complain about the amount of energy being used to mine for bitcoin?
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As none of us are going to implement the solution, I'm not clear I why we should bother with possible solutions.
 
psionl0 said:
Are you interested in possible solutions to the problem or is the sole purpose of this thread to complain about the amount of energy being used to mine for bitcoin?
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I am interested.

As I see it, Bitcoin Mining has created an infrastructure of computing that won't go away - it might get repurposed if something more lucrative than cryptocurrency mining comes along - either through a collapse in the market or because we found something better.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I am interested.

As I see it, Bitcoin Mining has created an infrastructure of computing that won't go away - it might get repurposed if something more lucrative than cryptocurrency mining comes along - either through a collapse in the market or because we found something better.
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As I have pointed out before, we already have the technological solution (almost?). If we could come up with an equitable block reward system then consensus mining could eliminate the energy wastage.

Maybe some ideas on how such a reward system might work would prove fruitful.
 
psionl0 said:
Are you interested in possible solutions to the problem or is the sole purpose of this thread to complain about the amount of energy being used to mine for bitcoin?
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The best solution by far is to get rid of bitcoin. It causes too many problems for too many people and offers nothing in return, it's drag on productivity and the negative impacts on economic growth are getting worse.

The issues CI and other online service providers mentioned above are just a drop in the bucket. Even electricity use is a drop in the bucket compared to the problems with open source software and javascript bots. Do you have any idea just how much of the worlds economic infrastructure currently depends on open source software and javascript?
 
lomiller said:
The best solution by far is to get rid of bitcoin. It causes too many problems for too many people and offers nothing in return, it's drag on productivity and the negative impacts on economic growth are getting worse.

The issues CI and other online service providers mentioned above are just a drop in the bucket. Even electricity use is a drop in the bucket compared to the problems with open source software and javascript bots. Do you have any idea just how much of the worlds economic infrastructure currently depends on open source software and javascript?
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I don't really see how that's a solution at all. Bitcoin is decentralized. There's no power cable to yank, no server farm to raid.

I agree that having Bitcoin go away would be a good thing, but how exactly can that be done?

There may be actions taken that could drive the price of bitcoin down, and by doing so make high energy mining economically unfeasible, but I don't see any way to just delete bitcoin from the internet.

Making it harder to convert bitcoin into real money is probably something that could have real impact on it. It's largely a speculative vehicle, and eventually people cash out their winnings. Making cashing out harder could make this kind of wild speculation less appealing, impacting the price.

It is already sometimes difficult to deal with legitimate banks when it comes to crypto.
 
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Tippit said:
Nice date on that article. BTC has since more than doubled. If anything, this puts into perspective how corrupt monetary systems around the world are, and just how much demand there is for honest money (or honest assets with monetary properties if you wish).
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Honest money wouldn't be used mostly by speculators and criminals.

How are monetary systems "corrupt"?
 
Belz... said:
Honest money wouldn't be used mostly by speculators and criminals.

How are monetary systems "corrupt"?
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Tippit's theory is that "honest" money is subject to printing by the central authorities for the profit of themselves and their cronies.

The supply of cryptos can't be manipulated that way although that doesn't mean that the supply can't be cornered which is effectively the same thing.

As for the nefarious use only, I suspect that would only apply as long as there isn't a crypto that is seen as a genuine alternative curreny.
 
psionl0 said:
.... If we could come up with an equitable block reward system then consensus mining could eliminate the energy wastage.

Maybe some ideas on how such a reward system might work would prove fruitful.
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I don't know anything about that other than: isn't Ethereum already doing that, or they are moving to it very soon?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
...
There may be actions taken that could drive the price of bitcoin down, and by doing so make high energy mining economically unfeasible, but I don't see any way to just delete bitcoin from the internet.
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Graduated energy cost by use, but one needs all countries onboard.

SuburbanTurkey said:
..... Making cashing out harder could make this kind of wild speculation less appealing, impacting the price. ..
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If you want to mine Ethereum you need to put a fair amount of cash into it that you can't get back (cash out) for 2 years.

I have no idea if that's what you had in mind.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't know anything about that other than: isn't Ethereum already doing that, or they are moving to it very soon?
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Etherium uses a "proof of stake" (rather than "proof of work") but it is still a competitive system where the winner gets to add a block to the chain and claim the rewards.

The Ripple/Stellar consensus model is completely different.
 
lomiller said:
The best solution by far is to get rid of bitcoin. It causes too many problems for too many people and offers nothing in return, it's drag on productivity and the negative impacts on economic growth are getting worse.

The issues CI and other online service providers mentioned above are just a drop in the bucket. Even electricity use is a drop in the bucket compared to the problems with open source software and javascript bots. Do you have any idea just how much of the worlds economic infrastructure currently depends on open source software and javascript?
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That sounds like a security problem with javascript, not bitcoin. The client software should enable limits on CPU usage and resources. Or, alternatively it can just be disabled.


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Belz... said:
No, as usual your fixes just make the original less accurate.
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Only if somebody who prints currency for themself gains nothing from it.

Obviously the currency printer will profit from it - either at the expense of others if production doesn't increase (inflation) or from increased production (if there is a currency shortage).
 
psionl0 said:
Only if somebody who prints currency for themself gains nothing from it.

Obviously the currency printer will profit from it - either at the expense of others if production doesn't increase (inflation) or from increased production (if there is a currency shortage).
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Huh? Whether the “printer” gains isn’t contingent on inflation or production at all. The gains accrue at the moment the money is spent. Neither do pre-existing assets need to be produced in order to be “gained” nor are asset prices figured in inflation statistics.

If production increases enough to offset the price action that otherwise would have resulted from the counterfeiter, this does not alter the fact that wealth was stolen and gains were made.

In fact the positive inflation rate, if it exists, does not account for all of the increased productivity that was stolen by “printers”, since there is a deflationary offset called the “productivity norm”.

This should be obvious...


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