It's not a condition at all. It's just words.
What about the condition of not being able to say the statement is meaningless without adding insults?
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[ED] Discussion: Trans Women Are not Women (Part 6)
- Thread starter Emily's Cat
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It's not a condition at all. It's just words.
What about the condition of not being able to say the statement is meaningless without adding insults?
Boudicca90
Muse
I think Emily Cat is nearly 100% percent wrong, but at least she's actually made her point instead of just repeating "I'm right because I say so because I define the answer as me being right" over and over.
Raw, formless anger is not an argument.
Raw, formless anger is not an argument.
You could replace "woman" with literally any other noun in any language in the sentence and it would be the exact same argument.
It's circular nonsense.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Sounds good.
What rights?
The right to preferred pronouns? This isn't really a right, in the sense that common courtesy isn't really a right.
The right to freedom from discrimination in employment and housing? Yes, absolutely. 100% agree.
The right to segregate with the opposite sex in sex-segregated areas? How do you reconcile this with the female right to segregate *from* the opposite sex? And how do you distinguish a transwoman claiming this right from a man claiming this right? Does the man also have the right?
Thermal
August Member
These two things are not equivalent. It really is as simple as that.
A decision made by people who support the existence of nudist locker rooms in schools. A human rights violation which you still refuse to condemn.
I will.
- Use a transperson preferred pronouns (within reasonable context) because I'm not trying to intentionally be a jerk and because pronouns they don't mean anything. Like I've said some languages don't even have gender pronouns or they implement them in radically different ways. It's completely pointless and means nothing.
- Not give two craps (no pun) what bathroom them or anyone else is because I just don't care.
But
- If asked directly if I mentally think of them as the their preferred gender or similar question I will not lie and say that I do.
- Use a transperson preferred pronouns (within reasonable context) because I'm not trying to intentionally be a jerk and because pronouns they don't mean anything. Like I've said some languages don't even have gender pronouns or they implement them in radically different ways. It's completely pointless and means nothing.
- Not give two craps (no pun) what bathroom them or anyone else is because I just don't care.
But
- If asked directly if I mentally think of them as the their preferred gender or similar question I will not lie and say that I do.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Actually... all but one of those are things that have been said in this mega-thread. The one exception is the vandalization and threats against the rape shelter. Nobody in this thread (to my knowledge) actually participated in that... but some posters in this thread did laud it as an appropriate and acceptable response by trans activists to put that female-only shelter in its place and get it defunded.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
I'd be interested in hearing from LondonJohn on this one.
https://twitter.com/smallestslime/status/1361755477177163778
I have to admit "girldick" makes a lot more sense to me (immediately obvious what's going on there) but maybe I'm just being inflexible about the idea of male/female as an (invariably binary) adaptive mechanism which facilitates reproduction. Perhaps there are other definitions of "female" to be had in the medical literature?
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Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Oh FFS. I haven't claimed to speak for all women. Just stop that silly claim.
On the other hand... you've literally been shown that the objectives you support do actually harm females and do actually diminish their rights. You have repeatedly said it won't happen... then when shown that it is actually currently happening, you retreat to saying it just doesn't matter, it's not important to you.
Lol, okay, I'm going to have to give you this one... but it's not the win you think it is.
You're correct - the term was originally coined by females that didn't want to be associated with such regressive views of womanhood, views based on egregiously confining stereotypes that have been used to keep women down for thousands of years. It was originally coined by RADICAL FEMINISTS who viewed your interpretation of womanhood as regressive and oppressive.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
... Okay, now what does the highlighted part mean? What does it mean to "live your life as a woman"?
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
What? I don't understand your post.
Meadmaker
Unregistered
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 29,033
___ is saying that the judge's decision was wrong, but for different reasons than are normally cited.
___ thinks that no one has the right to see anyone naked in a locker room, i.e. that all people ought to have the right to visual bodily privacy, regardless of the sex or gender of the watcher. i.e. the judge's decision should not have been that girls have a right to avoid the male gaze in a locker room, but the correct ruling would have been that everyone has the right to avoid any gaze in a locker room.
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Is there a women's organization that has actually raised money to build a rape shelter exclusively for trans women?
https://i.redd.it/k4sqs38jygh61.png
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- May 12, 2010
- Messages
- 21,464
None of this is especially difficult, you know. Don't know why you and others keep asking me this stuff.
The answer is: there's no such thing as the female penis*. There are some women with penises. These women are a subset of the class "transwomen". There are no females with penises.
* Except, perhaps, in a minuscule amount of intersex people who have something akin to a male sex organ, but who are in other respects genetically female. Or..... in a more esoteric way, women who have greatly enlarged clitori, which could in certain respects be considered similar (in sexual arousal terms, particularly) to a penis.
Louden Wilde
Muse
Are you dismissing all of the issues EC raised? Do you think there should be any sex-based rights at all?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
"In order for your transition to be effective, it's very important that everyone use your preferred pronouns at all times," prescribed no doctor ever.
That's always been the issue.'
The primary (except when it isn't) trans argument is that "Woman" isn't the same as "Female."
Okay. That doesn't really answer or address the question. Why are "Female Only" spaces not valid then if trans-women still aren't females?
I get the impression that some people think because for so long "Female" and "Woman" were used mostly as the same word so often we just called things "Women's Rooms" and "Women's Football" and whatnot instead of "Female Rooms" and "Female Football" we're somehow locked into that when the obvious intent was always to separate things by biological sexes, not gender (whatever gender means this moment before it changes in the next.)
Yeah we traditionally used the word "Woman" more than "Female" because it's just less clinical and sounds nicer in most context. That doesn't mean we're litera-genie trapped in never being able to separate things by sex instead of gender. So the whole "Oh oh you called it the Woman's Baseball Team so you have to let me in because I'm a woman" when everyone goddamn knows it's actually the "Female Baseball Team" is rather disingenuous. "Oh you called it a Woman's Restroom instead of a Female Restroom and now you're locked into that dichotomy" seems rather silly to me.
The primary (except when it isn't) trans argument is that "Woman" isn't the same as "Female."
Okay. That doesn't really answer or address the question. Why are "Female Only" spaces not valid then if trans-women still aren't females?
I get the impression that some people think because for so long "Female" and "Woman" were used mostly as the same word so often we just called things "Women's Rooms" and "Women's Football" and whatnot instead of "Female Rooms" and "Female Football" we're somehow locked into that when the obvious intent was always to separate things by biological sexes, not gender (whatever gender means this moment before it changes in the next.)
Yeah we traditionally used the word "Woman" more than "Female" because it's just less clinical and sounds nicer in most context. That doesn't mean we're litera-genie trapped in never being able to separate things by sex instead of gender. So the whole "Oh oh you called it the Woman's Baseball Team so you have to let me in because I'm a woman" when everyone goddamn knows it's actually the "Female Baseball Team" is rather disingenuous. "Oh you called it a Woman's Restroom instead of a Female Restroom and now you're locked into that dichotomy" seems rather silly to me.
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Louden Wilde
Muse
Being born female and then growing into adulthood is "a regressive view of womanhood"? I don't think so. nor do most feminists. My take is that a growing number of women are joining EC et al as they learn more and as (often overtly misogynistic) TRAs make their case (more so in the UK). The sports issue here in the US will not help in the long run. Nor will people saying sex/biology is a social construct. Or TWs in female prisons. Or TWs taking positions meant for females.
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