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Split Thread A second impeachment

Stacyhs said:
No, YOU are making it a big deal that ONE did.

I agree, no need to be a jerk about it. So stop digging the hole any deeper. It's been obvious from the beginning that this impeachment, just like the first one, was going nowhere because the current GOP is the PARTY OF TRUMP and as long as the GOP senators are up his ass, it will continue to be.
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That's the whole point. This was a really good chance for the dems to get the GOP senators out of his ass, evidence by the fact several of them did get out of his ass, including one after hearing the defense arguments. You guys are so convinced that it's impossible when that low effort impeachment trial pulled in 7 R votes, including one guy in a safely red district who just won his reelection changed his mind when he heard the defense.

His defense was head over heels trying to avoid talking about election fraud claims and the dems didn't see particularly interested in that either. They were asking specific questions about when Trump knew about the attack and what he was doing, they simply didn't answer them and they were content with leaving it at that. Nobody wants to know exactly why it took so long to get help? Who else knew the president was going to send a crowd down there to disrupt the proceedings and did they deliberately leave it unprotected, and for what reason?

You think I'm digging a hole because I think they should have tried to get answers to those questions. That's fine, I don't particularly like the take that since they were going to lose and it was delaying legislation that phoning it in was OK. But, that's what they did.

This isn't a productive conversation for me anymore so I have nothing further to add.
 
For the GOP Donor Class, it should be easy to choose between the guy who was just reelected for 6 years and the guy who was not.
 
dirtywick said:
That's the whole point. This was a really good chance for the dems to get the GOP senators out of his ass, evidence by the fact several of them did get out of his ass, including one after hearing the defense arguments. You guys are so convinced that it's impossible when that low effort impeachment trial pulled in 7 R votes, including one guy in a safely red district who just won his reelection changed his mind when he heard the defense.
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If the GOP hadn't been spending years perfecting the Lucy Football approach to bipartisanship, you might have had a point. They're willing to seem reasonable only when it doesn't make any difference in the outcome. If the impeachment vote was a simple majority, not a one of them would have turned coat.
 
dirtywick said:
That's the whole point. This was a really good chance for the dems to get the GOP senators out of his ass, evidence by the fact several of them did get out of his ass, including one after hearing the defense arguments. You guys are so convinced that it's impossible when that low effort impeachment trial pulled in 7 R votes, including one guy in a safely red district who just won his reelection changed his mind when he heard the defense.

His defense was head over heels trying to avoid talking about election fraud claims and the dems didn't see particularly interested in that either. They were asking specific questions about when Trump knew about the attack and what he was doing, they simply didn't answer them and they were content with leaving it at that. Nobody wants to know exactly why it took so long to get help? Who else knew the president was going to send a crowd down there to disrupt the proceedings and did they deliberately leave it unprotected, and for what reason?

You think I'm digging a hole because I think they should have tried to get answers to those questions. That's fine, I don't particularly like the take that since they were going to lose and it was delaying legislation that phoning it in was OK. But, that's what they did.

This isn't a productive conversation for me anymore so I have nothing further to add.
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The bottom line is getting a conviction would have been an very difficult uphill struggle. The fact that a few days earlier 45 republicans voted that the trial was unconstitutional on utterly specious, easily shown, grounds shows just how difficult it would be. The fact Mitch, do not forget Republican House leader in the Senate, voted to acquit, even though he admits Trump was guilty, on those specious grounds indicates just how difficult it would be. The fact Mitch was at least partly responsible for those specious grounds is disgusting.

It is obvious to me that virtually any specious excuse would be used by most of the Republicans to avoid conviction. The fact that they acquitted even though the Defence was incredibly bad and specious, and that the Prosecution had presented a virtually irrefutable case, has admitted by Mitch, shows just how difficult it would be.

The fact that 7 Republican Senator's voted to convict doesn't show that better arguments to convict would have worked, given that 5 were already before the trial almost certain to convict without the trial. So they didn't need much convincing. At best two changed their minds.

As for the rest. The simple fact, that it appears that most took refugee, in the specious argument that it was unconstitutional to have the trial with Trump no longer in office, shows just how willing they were to grasp at any absurd straw to excuse their cowardice.

The GOP became Trump's bi#$% years ago and now we have full collaboration of that.
 
dirtywick said:
That's the whole point. This was a really good chance for the dems to get the GOP senators out of his ass, evidence by the fact several of them did get out of his ass, including one after hearing the defense arguments. ....
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You are blaming the wrong people.
 
Vixen said:
It has been known for concussed individuals to not realise how serious their condition is straightaway.
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Getting hit on the head can kill a person in a couple different ways without them actually feeling anything amiss until hours later when it's too late or not even feeling it then, if I understand the situation correctly. Of some small note, the Detective Conan anime actually ran a story that dealt with a case of that happening rather recently.
 
Vixen said:
It has been known for concussed individuals to not realise how serious their condition is straightaway.
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You and the "Impeachment Managers" apparently did not know...

Even CNN admits...


( Only took forever. Damage done. After the narrative has been spun, the truth comes out.)

( fake news destroys nation )


https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/02/politics/brian-sicknick-charges/index.html

According to one law enforcement official, medical examiners did not find signs that the officer sustained any blunt force trauma, so investigators believe that early reports that he was fatally struck by a fire extinguisher are not true.
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....no evidence Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick died from blunt force to the head ...medical examiners did not find signs that the officer sustained any blunt force trauma,
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sicknick-killed-blunt-force-head-january-6th/
 
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Bubba said:
You and the "Impeachment Managers" apparently did not know...

Even CNN admits...


( Only took forever. Damage done. After the narrative has been spun, the truth comes out.)

( fake news destroys nation )








https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...sicknick-killed-blunt-force-head-january-6th/
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Neither the autopsy results nor the cause of death has been released. All we know is that he allegedly told his brother later that day that he been sprayed with bear repellent a couple times (which is unlikely to be the cause of death) and that he collapsed at the station. He was on life support at the hospital after a brain clot caused a stroke. Whether or not the clot and resulting stroke were a result of an injury received during the riot or a pre-existing medical condition is not known.

As for Bubba's "fake news destroys nations" nonsense, this from FOX News:

Media reports have been conflicting — unnamed law enforcement sources initially told outlets Sicknick was bludgeoned in the head by a fire extinguisher, while others speaking on condition of anonymity countered those claims, arguing there was no immediate evidence showing that Sicknick suffered any blunt force trauma.
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It's rather interesting when Republican leaders outright tell us that they don't like people doing the right thing.

The chair of the Washington County, Pa., Republican Party blasted Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) on Monday for voting to convict former President Trump in his second impeachment trial, saying the outgoing senator was not elected to “do the right thing.”

“We did not send him there to vote his conscience. We did not send him there to do the right thing or whatever he said he was doing. We sent him there to represent us,” Washington County GOP Chairman Dave Ball told Pittsburgh-area CBS affiliate KDKA-TV.
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That group of Republicans censured Toomey, of course.
 
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Segnosaur said:
And, the republican infighting has begun...

From: CBC (Canuck broadcasting corporation)
Former U.S. president Donald Trump lashed out at Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday, signalling a growing feud between the two most important voices in the Republican Party. "Mitch is a dour, sullen and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again," Trump said in a statement released through his political action committee amid the fallout over his second impeachment trial.

So despite the fact that Moscow Mitch provided cover for Trump over 4 years, and voted not to impeach him (twice), Trump attacked him. Hopefully re-enforcing the lesson to all of Trump's boot-lickers... any "loyalty" from trump only works when you are completely subservient.
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Mitch and the Republicians were given the perfect opportunity to blow out Trump once and for all and they failed to seize it.

No clairvoyant is needed to predict Trump would be stirring up chaos once again. Not to mention the racist jab at Mitch's wife.
 
Segnosaur said:
So despite the fact that Moscow Mitch provided cover for Trump over 4 years, and voted not to impeach him (twice), Trump attacked him. Hopefully re-enforcing the lesson to all of Trump's boot-lickers... any "loyalty" from trump only works when you are completely subservientuseful.
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Fixed that for you
 
Vixen said:
Mitch and the Republicians were given the perfect opportunity to blow out Trump once and for all and they failed to seize it.

No clairvoyant is needed to predict Trump would be stirring up chaos once again. Not to mention the racist jab at Mitch's wife.
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Hate to be controversial (OK, I tell a lie; I don't), but just maybe what Mitch did was not so stupid. Presumably emotions are still running high in the T**** base. A "guilty" verdict might cause riots. On the other hand he unequivocally denounced T****´s actions. He didn't throw him under the bus, but he may have thrown him on one, going out of town.

Once the noise has died down, and people notice that their county actually isn't destroyed, and their guns aren't confiscated, some will remember the bad things done. The people sent to riot, then abandoned to be prosecuted. All the Covid deaths, etc.

And the GOP can silently restructure, congress critters can slowly begin to remember they were against T**** all the time. And Donald himself will be bogged down in legislation, dwindling finances, unable to play for the crowds.

Perhaps something good can come of this.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Once the noise has died down, and people notice that their county actually isn't destroyed, and their guns aren't confiscated...
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Not sure about the latter point.

8 years of Obama NOT confiscating guns did little to tamp down the fears of the gun rights folks. Don’t see why that fear will not survive 4 or 8 years of Democratic rule.

Especially if they DO start confiscating guns!
 
MRC_Hans said:
Hate to be controversial (OK, I tell a lie; I don't), but just maybe what Mitch did was not so stupid. Presumably emotions are still running high in the T**** base. A "guilty" verdict might cause riots. On the other hand he unequivocally denounced T****´s actions. He didn't throw him under the bus, but he may have thrown him on one, going out of town.
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How?

Moscow Mitch has no power in this. He can't 'help' get Trump convicted criminally. He can call for criminal conviction all he wants, but it is irrelevant. The "mixed message" of "republican senators won't convict... but hopefully someone else can" will be of no use.

Once the noise has died down, and people notice that their county actually isn't destroyed, and their guns aren't confiscated, some will remember the bad things done. The people sent to riot, then abandoned to be prosecuted. All the Covid deaths, etc.
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The U.S. did pretty good under Obama.... no confiscated guns, no shiara law, etc. Yet it didn't keep Trump elected in 2016.

People can be short sighted. They can get fixated on small things and ignore "bigger pictures". Biden could invent a cure for cancer and the common cold, fix the deficit, and provide health care for everyone for free, and there would still be people who think "OMG the democrats are the devil!"
And the GOP can silently restructure, congress critters can slowly begin to remember they were against T**** all the time.
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That.... is not a good thing.

Those congress critters went all-in for Trump. Allowing them to change history by claiming "oh I really was anti-Trump" allows them to absolve themselves of their responsibility, and will allow them to do the same thing in the future. They are sending the message... "justice doesn't matter... only our political power".
And Donald himself will be bogged down in legislation, dwindling finances, unable to play for the crowds.
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The problem is, republican actions in voting against impeachment are going to delay Trump's problems. By not impeaching him (and banning him from political office in the future), they allow him a lifeline... he can scam funds from the foolish (in the guise of "funding a political run") which will find its way into his personal bank account, he can start holding rallies (because he's still theoretically a viable candidate). And now, any attempt to charge him for anything (tax fraud, Georgia election interference, etc.) can get spun into "Political attack!"
 
Segnosaur said:
The U.S. did pretty good under Obama.... no confiscated guns, no shiara law, etc. Yet it didn't keep Trump elected in 2016.

People can be short sighted. They can get fixated on small things and ignore "bigger pictures". Biden could invent a cure for cancer and the common cold, fix the deficit, and provide health care for everyone for free, and there would still be people who think "OMG the democrats are the devil!"
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Agreed. People's fears are often unfounded on facts but that doesn't stop them from having them and, thus, politicians from playing on them. That is what Trump does/did so well. Contrary to the economy doing well, guns not being confiscated and no sharia law under eight years of Obama, Trump was able to play on people's fears that those and a host of other horrible things would still happen under Clinton. Fear mongering is the bread and butter of the right wing and most especially of Trumpism. All you have to do is listen to right wing pundits to understand that. I've long said that Fear is the basis of conservatism.
 
Segnosaur said:
The U.S. did pretty good under Obama.... no confiscated guns, no shiara law, etc. Yet it didn't keep Trump elected in 2016.

People can be short sighted. They can get fixated on small things and ignore "bigger pictures". Biden could invent a cure for cancer and the common cold, fix the deficit, and provide health care for everyone for free, and there would still be people who think "OMG the democrats are the devil!"

That.... is not a good thing.
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I read an article a few days about a woman getting sucked into the Q-anon nonsense.
She was convinced that Trump would win. Then she was sure the election was fraudulent. That Biden wasn't going to be inaugurated. That if Biden was inaugurated, the US would immediately become a communist country. Not that he was going to be inaugurated.
Trump was God's President. The Democrats and Hollywood were part of a pedophile conspiracy and would be rounded up and arrested starting on January 6th.

After, the riot. (She wasn't involved) She was all prepared to take her child out of school and go into hiding. Her mother talked her out of it. Then when the world didn't collapse she came to the conclusion that everything she was told was false.

What troubles me was how easily she believed all the wild conspiracy theories. She admitted that she didn't read a lot and should have known better. This is the biggest problem facing the country. People aren't skeptical. They lack the skills to filter out the disinformation.
 
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