[ED] Discussion: Trans Women Are not Women (Part 6)

[smartcooky]

I've always thought "human milk" is the sensible term. Every female mammal has a body section that could be called a breast -- except, ironically, a cow!

Well, that's an udder story!

 

[Sherkeu]

Good to see some are concentrating on the important trans issues.

https://www.wavy.com/news/health/so...or-human-milk-in-effort-to-be-more-inclusive/

Why did they think breast is a gendered word?

They may as well call it "lactation product of the mammary glands of a womb provider"
Maybe they'd cancel womb too. Internal receptacle of nourishment?

eta: and scratch all that because I forgot about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

 

[Collin237]

Why did they think breast is a gendered word?

[qimg]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5qR5C-y0KKL3U0WVqOqVf2d7udcXdCcnQzg&usqp=CAU[/qimg]

They may as well call it "lactation product of the mammary glands of a womb provider"
Maybe they'd cancel womb too. Internal receptacle of nourishment?

eta: and scratch all that because I forgot about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

The dictionary in the sky is falling!

Yawn.

 

[caveman1917]

And of course, no performance enhancing drugs. However, if they were prescribed by a doctor for a valid medical condition, that rule was waived, so one year a transboy who was pretty bulked up from male hormones won the Texas state girls' wrestling championship.

The highlighted seems the stupid part here. A performance enhancing drug is a performance enhancing drug, it doesn't matter if it was prescribed by a doctor or not, it'll still enhance your performance relative to the rest of the field.

 

[llwyd]

I have to say that sport is really a field where mere self-identification simply won't do, basically at the latest after 12-13 years of age. A self-identified but non-transitioning trans girl of 17 simply should not be allowed to compete against biogically female girls. And I think that says something more universal about the idea of a declaration of self-identification as being the only criteria. It's a very complicated and sensitive issue and we have to find sensible middle ways in some areas.

 

[Rolfe]

*only criterion. Criteria is the plural. Just saying.

 

[Rolfe]

Transgender ideology leaving a corrosive impact on society

Interesting article.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for breach of rule 12

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You seem perversely pleased with this negative outcome.

You'll forgive me if I don't take the notion of mild reforms being characterized as "sports communism" seriously.

 

[Shadowdweller]

I've always thought "human milk" is the sensible term. Every female mammal has a body section that could be called a breast -- except, ironically, a cow!

Fun fact: Monotremes (like the platypus) don't have breasts. Or nipples. But they do have mammary glands.

 

[Rolfe]

Nobody calls the structures on other female animals "breasts". For most herbivores the word "udder" is used. I'm not sure what non-medical term is used for dogs, cats and so on, we usually just say "mammary gland". Colloquially I've mainly heard dog breeders and so on simply refer to "teats".

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Based on a strictly outsider view of UK politics, I would assume trans rights are probably not going to be advanced in the near future. The brits seem to be going through some incredibly destructive spiral down regressive ideology, with the whole Brexit thing and the ascendant right. I would presume the UK becomes an explicitly more racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and generally brutish place in the near future, especially if these rumblings of Northern Ireland and Scottish break-offs come to pass.

It's an interesting experience as an American to see this happen to a peer nation. Usually it's other countries gawking at us as we destroy ourselves with right-wing poison.

 

[Manger Douse]

A small mercy is that our beauticians can get on with their jobs and not have the barbed wire baseball bat brigade set on them

 

[theprestige]

The highlighted seems the stupid part here. A performance enhancing drug is a performance enhancing drug, it doesn't matter if it was prescribed by a doctor or not, it'll still enhance your performance relative to the rest of the field.

It doesn't seem stupid to me, just a difficult trade-off between competing goods. An adult who aspired to compete in professional sports should be barred. But you don't necessarily want to be telling kids that they can't participate in school sports because of their legit medical condition with its legit required medical treatment. Every so often you get an outlier situation, but that might actually be the lesser evil.

 

[theprestige]

You'll forgive me if I don't take the notion of mild reforms being characterized as "sports communism" seriously.

Sure. But I'll not forgive you if you don't take the notion of problems caused by mild reforms seriously. You're using the mild hyperbole as an excuse to avoid addressing the real issues actually raised.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Sure. But I'll not forgive you if you don't take the notion of problems caused by mild reforms seriously. You're using the mild hyperbole as an excuse to avoid addressing the real issues actually raised.

Describing any element of US government policy as communist is more than "mild" hyperbole.

Seems to me that these smaller men's sports getting squashed are as much the victims of the predominance of college football than anything else. NCAA football serves as a de-facto semi-professional league and often turns into a black hole that sucks up all available athletic spending. If it weren't for Title IX, men's football programs would likely suck up all available funding that is currently going towards women's collegiate sports.

Title IX compliance is only one element of these marginal programs being cut, and none of factors in play have anything to do with communism. Given that college football coaches often make million dollar salaries, it's about as far from communism as you can get.

 

[Rolfe]

Unfortunately the erasure of women's rights seems to be the one area where the Scottish government is not too chicken to do the opposite from Westminster. Try to save more lives by not following Johnson's lethal "strategies"? Oh no we can't do that we must have four-nations agreement. Women want to retain their rights in the same way as women in England are being treated? No, get back in your box you bigot.

 

[Aber]

So without having to go read about the whole science of the census...
Are they adding a gender question as something extra? or actually using it as a real measure of # of men and # of women?

Because the second one would truly be insane and would erode the ability to track a whole bunch of public issues.

UK Census

They are adding a voluntary question on gender and keeping a compulsory one on sex.

In 2017 the ONS suggested that it would be a gender question and got a lot of pushback from biologists, public policy specialists and women.

 

[Aber]

Based on a strictly outsider view of UK politics, I would assume trans rights are probably not going to be advanced in the near future. The brits seem to be going through some incredibly destructive spiral down regressive ideology, with the whole Brexit thing and the ascendant right. I would presume the UK becomes an explicitly more racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and generally brutish place in the near future, especially if these rumblings of Northern Ireland and Scottish break-offs come to pass.

Uk is quite enlightened by European standards

 

[Boudicca90]

It is interesting (and hilarious) to me how if anti-trans liberals want to keep discriminating against us, they will have to ally themselves with conservatives to do so.

Despite Collin's conspiracy theories that somehow conservatives are responsible for pro-trans legislation (and that pro-trans organizations are somehow anti-trans, like he's living in the Mirror Universe), the fact is that they are the best hope transphobes have to enact their agenda.

Here in the US, Biden made his feelings on the matter and his support of us perfectly clear, and there seems to be no dissention about that among Democrats. It was the main reason I supported him despite the hate from other leftists I dealt with in doing so, because 4 years of having my rights eroded by Trump wore me down to the point I was like "Fine! I'll support a reactionary neoliberal!".

So liberals have to make a decision on whether their fear, distrust, and hate of us outweighs their other goals. Since they will need the support of the Republican Party and conservative groups to continue their anti-trans agenda.

I personally think this is a reason why many transgender people end up leftist, because we realize many liberals don't really support us as much as they pretend to.

 

[Paul2]

It is interesting (and hilarious) to me how if anti-trans liberals want to keep discriminating against us, they will have to ally themselves with conservatives to do so.

Despite Collin's conspiracy theories that somehow conservatives are responsible for pro-trans legislation (and that pro-trans organizations are somehow anti-trans, like he's living in the Mirror Universe), the fact is that they are the best hope transphobes have to enact their agenda.

Here in the US, Biden made his feelings on the matter and his support of us perfectly clear, and there seems to be no dissention about that among Democrats. It was the main reason I supported him despite the hate from other leftists I dealt with in doing so, because 4 years of having my rights eroded by Trump wore me down to the point I was like "Fine! I'll support a reactionary neoliberal!".

So liberals have to make a decision on whether their fear, distrust, and hate of us outweighs their other goals. Since they will need the support of the Republican Party and conservative groups to continue their anti-trans agenda.

I personally think this is a reason why many transgender people end up leftist, because we realize many liberals don't really support us as much as they pretend to.

Can you imagine a difference of opinion with you on some aspect of trans rights that was not coming from fear, distrust, hate, or something similar? If so, what might that look like?