Me neither. The only place I've heard of the golden apple was on the TV show Hercules starring Kevin Sorbo. And I gather that was quite different from the original legend.
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
Cont: [ED] Discussion: Trans Women are not Women (Part 5)
- Thread starter Archie Gemmill Goal
- Start date
- Status
Me neither. The only place I've heard of the golden apple was on the TV show Hercules starring Kevin Sorbo. And I gather that was quite different from the original legend.
caveman1917
Philosopher
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 8,143
Here's what I don't understand. Even if you don't care about defining your terms or whether your claims are scientifically accurate or not, surely you must have known that making such claims here would get them scrutinized on exactly those grounds and rejected when you'd fail to support them? I'm not saying that you have to care about definitions or scientific accuracy, but then why, out of all places on the internet, would you choose to come make them here - one of the few places on the internet where you know they would get scrutinized, and ultimately rejected, on those grounds?
Rolfe
Adult human female
You should have the right to play sports equally with your own sex. That is an absolute red line and while there is a lot of nonsense going on at the moment the nonsense will not prevail.
If there are post-op transwomen who are actually at risk of cervical cancer then of course they should be included in cervical smear clinics. Please provide evidence that such people actually exist. A structure created by plastic surgery out of male tissue is not a cervix and I require evidence that such a structure is susceptible to the type of cancers that can be diagnosed using the cervical smear technique.
Women are not here to cosset you in your delusions. Use the spaces you're entitled to, enter the sports you're entitled to enter by your sex. If other men do anything to make this difficult for you, take it up with them. Don't expect women to throw themselves under your feet as your personal doormat.
Boudicca90
Muse
Yes to the first and no to the second. Cisgender men are men and shouldn't be allowed in women only spaces if we don't want them in there. Same goes with transgender men as well since they are men as well.
Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
Rolfe
Adult human female
You are not a woman. This is what we are trying to explain to you. You are stating that you have rights that you simply do not have, or that your mates have bullied and gaslighted organisations into caving in and giving you.
The entire point of male and female locker rooms is to discriminate between (not against) people on the basis of what genitalia they have. You are not being discriminated against, you are correctly being discriminated into your correct sex-class to change with people who are of the same sex as you are. So quit with the entitlement, the bullying and the gaslighting. Telling women to get out of their own spaces because you want to dress up and play at being a woman is an absolute tell for male entitlement, don't ever imagine you have a "woman's mind".
Last edited:
Louden Wilde
Muse
You do not have to deal with sex-based bias at all. For example, by definition, you have no risk of pregnancy. The many female fetuses aborted, babies killed and girls subjected to female genital mutilation could not escape their fate by not identifying as female. Moreover, TW will never be seen as a subset of women (the way say- tall women are) because of that reproductive potential. Males will always figure out the difference - there is rather strong selection (putting it mildly) to do so.
Last edited:
Rolfe
Adult human female
That's what I thought. Any screening that might be appropriate would need a different technique from cervical smears used on people who actually have cervixes. So no, they don't get to go to the cervical smear clinic.
That person is free to say whatever ridiculous hateful stuff they want to.
I would like to be able to take their behavior and their frankly misogynistic commentary into consideration and refuse them admittance to my presence when I am vulnerable.
I agree that that specific person should not be allowed in women's spaces.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I've just finished watching Das Rheingold from the Met. Are these Idun's apples of eternal youth that the Aesir eat?
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Where Boudicca90 & I live (in the U.S.) this remains true, but it seems she disagrees with that policy on its face.
Edit: NVM just got caught up to #3533.
Last edited:
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
What I don't understand is why anyone committed to the cause of transsexuality wouldn't care what science - biology, psychology - has to say about the subject? If we drop science from the conversation, what's left? Transwomen are women because witchcraft?
caveman1917
Philosopher
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 8,143
Ultimately few people care about scientific accuracy or precise definitions. We're a minority on that in the population at large. Which is why I don't understand why Boudicca would specifically come here, one of the few places on the internet where people do scrutinize claims on their scientific accuracy and logical consistency, to make claims when there are tons and tons of alternatives available where she can make such claims all day long without them ever getting scrutinized on these grounds.
It's like joining a soccer team while not caring for the rules of soccer. Sure, nobody is required to care about the rules of soccer and few people actually do, but then why go join a soccer team? Surely such person should know that this would cause problems with the rest of the team, the fans, and especially the referee of the game.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
What fraction of transwomen have a neocervix which is susceptible to cervical cancer?
Why? The sport was originally segregated by sex rather than gender.
Of course we don't drop science! We drop ideology. What's left? Rejecting unanswerable questions, and just sticking to the truth -- trans women are people.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Boudicca has been pretty explicit about the importance of erasing the distinction and dismissing biological reality as a valid concern.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
"Transwomen are people" is an ideological position. Societies picking and choosing who are the people and who are not is always an ideological game.
She believes, as does Rolfe, that "being a man" and "being a woman" are essential forms. Boudicca is someone who was born male, and for some unknown reason feels ineluctably that he should be female. That doesn't give him extra inalienable rights. It may however give him extra liberties in certain jurisdictions, depending on the consensus of civil society. Any movement that prevents people from freely weighing whether or not to sustain the consensus on specific issues, is detrimental to democracy.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Exactly. Because scientifically, everyone is the people.
- Status