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Dover Penn ID trial

Wanted - People to testify in favor of ID in a new court case. Must be willing to commit perjury, and then be publicly humiliated by the judges decision. May damage your career.

Any applications?
 
As I said, I was startled by the Judge's castigation of the defendents' testimony. He called them outright liars and intimated that they perjured themselves.

I hope that somebody helps the schoolboard appeal this to the Penn Supreme Court. Then it'd become a proper precedent that other states could not ignore.
 
Is it possible these guys could actually be charged with perjury?
Rolfe.

Doubtful. See post 349 in this thread
Extract from post
My understanding is also that they're incredibly difficult to prosecute. As I read the various reported details, although I certainly get the idea and the impression that Buckingham is a lying cheese-weasel, I don't think I can actually prove that any given statement is a lie. Almost everything he says is attributed to simple mis-remembering, backed up by an acknowledged and provable drug problem.
 
I woke up this morning with this news being announced on the radio, all the way over here in sunny Melbourne, Australia.

I'd like to buy that judge a beer.
Just be sure it's not Bad Frog Beer
As chairman of the Liquor Control Board for seven years, Jones spearheaded then-Gov. Tom Ridge's failed campaign to privatize the state stores and banned the sale of Bad Frog Beer because he thought that the label broke the boundaries of good taste. The offending label featured a frog flipping the bird.
Something tells me he wouldn't make it as a judge in Oz.
 
You know, in a few weeks, after this has become old news, we are going to suffer a sort of post-partum depression. This has been so much fun!

~~ Paul
 
I hope that somebody helps the schoolboard appeal this to the Penn Supreme Court. Then it'd become a proper precedent that other states could not ignore.

Actually, a decision of a state supreme court is not binding on the courts of other states, and would not necessarily be any more persuasive than a federal district court decision.

The trial took place in the U.S. District Court (a federal court), so the appeal would actually go to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (a federal appellate court). The Third Circuit covers PA, NJ, and a few other states that I forget at the moment. From there the losing party could petition the U.S. Supreme Court to hear the case.

As others have pointed out, however, the newly constituted school board is unlikely to appeal the case.

However, Judge Jones' decision is very detailed, well-reasoned, and thorough. It may not be binding authority, but it will be very persuasive authority for any other court looking at a similar issue.

Hopefully it is also persuasive for any other school boards contemplating this issue, but I doubt it. People who think they're doing "God's word" are -- as Judge Jones anticipated -- going to dismiss his decision as the work of an activist liberal judge. (The fact that he is a GWB appointee whom Sen. Santorum and Sec. Ridge have applauded and who many Penn. Republicans saw as a future governor, will be ignored as well.)

On the other hand, a substantial attorneys fee award may help persuade any moderate trustees out there that this is not a smart fight for any responsible school board to risk its resources on.
 
Being from Pennsylvania myself, this is a proud moment for me. I think my state has shown that it can manage its fringe population in a highly respectable way, and its character as a moderate state has been vindicated and shown to be effective, while its "Pennsyltucky" reputation has been refuted.
 
"Pennsyltucky?"

"PENNSYLTUCKY?"

I happen to have been born in (and currently work in) the only TRUE "ucky" state, and I take umbrage at this.

Why, I'll have you know that we have many distinguished years of prominent and ....

Well, we certainly would not think to .....

Umm, WE'RE A GREAT STATE, DAGNABBIT!
 
The genetic code -- you know, all those GATTACA stuff -- is in fact digital; there's no intermediate chemical that's 20% G and 80% T. Similarly, the base codons are digital; there's not a representation for 30% guanine and 70% adenine.

Digital? No. There is nothing inherently numeric about ATCG.

Discrete? Possibly. But even then, this "code" is dependent on location, bonding angles, methylation, organism, etc. The analogy to computing is seriously over-used. The 8086 instruction set doesn't have a 3d structure and operates deterministically.
 
Digital? No. There is nothing inherently numeric about ATCG.

Nor is there anything inherently numeric about "digital." (Any more than there's anything inherently electrical about a "lightning bug".)

Merely being "discrete" is sufficient, as you yourself acknowledge.
 
Digital? No. There is nothing inherently numeric about ATCG. Discrete? Possibly. But even then, this "code" is dependent on location, bonding angles, methylation, organism, etc. The analogy to computing is seriously over-used. The 8086 instruction set doesn't have a 3d structure and operates deterministically.

And I suppose you're going to tell us all that just happened from a bunch of random atheistical atoms? Hah!

Seriously now, that JohnE Jones is one baaaaaad ass judge. I hope he has someone to watch his back.

I don't mean that as a figure of speech. alas alas.
 
Seriously now, that JohnE Jones is one baaaaaad ass judge. I hope he has someone to watch his back.

I don't mean that as a figure of speech. alas alas.
Unfortunately, it seems God won't be helping him on the matter.

Probably because he doesn't exist.
 
Nor is there anything inherently numeric about "digital." (Any more than there's anything inherently electrical about a "lightning bug".)

Merely being "discrete" is sufficient, as you yourself acknowledge.

Here are the definitions I know of the word "digital:"

1. Of, relating to, or resembling a digit, especially a finger.
2. Operated or done with the fingers: a digital switch.
3. Having digits.
4. Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer.
5. Computer Science. Of or relating to a device that can read, write, or store information that is represented in numerical form. See Usage Note at virtual.
6. Using or giving a reading in digits: a digital clock.

adj 1: of a circuit or device that represents magnitudes in digits; "digital computer" [ant: analogue] 2: displaying numbers rather than scale positions; "digital clock"; "digital readout" 3: relating to or performed with the fingers; "digital examination"

None of those apply to DNA.
 
Being from Pennsylvania myself, this is a proud moment for me. I think my state has shown that it can manage its fringe population in a highly respectable way, and its character as a moderate state has been vindicated and shown to be effective, while its "Pennsyltucky" reputation has been refuted.

Beware the wrath of Garrette and Spidey13! See? Proof that Kentucky has at least two rationally minded people. Don't make us come up there.

And, anyway, Pennissippi sounds so much better.

ETA: Actually, make us come up there. I'd love to go to a Flyer's game.:D
 
Uh, Melendwyr, you're gonna have to be a bit more verbose. Which definition are you referring to? I think Delphi understands what a number is.

~~ Paul
 
Uh, Melendwyr, you're gonna have to be a bit more verbose. Which definition are you referring to? I think Delphi understands what a number is.

~~ Paul

It was unfriend-ily terse. Perhaps I can offer:

http://www.webster.com/dictionary/digital

3 : of, relating to, or using calculation by numerical methods or by discrete units

To claim that a DNA code isn't digital would be incorrect. The sequences are discrete, and thus have a digital representation.

To claim that the DNA code dictates everything that goes on in the body, like code does in a computer, would also be incorrect. It doesn't dictate that you will be exactly 5' 11" tall. It will promote growth to a certain degree, and that growth is also influenced by other (analog) factors.
 
If we're going to claim that DNA is not "digital", then we must also accept that modern electronic computers aren't "digital". After all, there's nothing number-like about the activation states of countless tiny electronic switches and magnetic domain orientations... except that they're discrete units that can be represented by digits.

delphi_ote is a stickler for correct terminology. Now if only he knew what the words actually meant...
 
Interesting fact:

Eric Rothschild, one of the partners of the Philadelphia-based Pepper Hamilton LLP and a member of the NCSE legal advisory council, enthusiastically offered to take the case, telling Scott, “I’ve been waiting for this for 15 years.”
I wondered why he was so good.
 

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