Cont: Trump et al continued “2020 election” conspiracy theories

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Trump Tweets

Wow! Blockbuster testimony taking place right now in Georgia. Ballot stuffing by Dems when Republicans were forced to leave the large counting room. Plenty more coming, but this alone leads to an easy win of the State!
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I remember this because I mentally weighed it against Carl Sagan’s words: “I don’t want to believe. I want to know”.
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(Off-topic)

Probably not from Sagan.

I was curious because I'm used to believing to be a necessary precondition for knowing. The sense I use the term (which is common in epistemology) is that belief means something like accepting as true, with or without evidence. Some people (like the author of that quote) use the term belief to mean accepting as true without evidence.

The person answering the question on quora is, to be sure, no authority known to me, but his argument seems plausible. The nub is that Sagan's use of the term "believe" is similar to mine, which would make the quotation nonsensical.

Sorry, your quotation just made me curious so I very briefly looked into it. I could sure be wrong and Sagan maybe did say it somewhere, but he's also the kind of author that quotes get attached to. Anyway, thought I'd mention it.
 
turingtest said:
They shouldn't have a problem with it, since, in fact, "Swing-state counties that used Dominion voting machines mostly voted for Trump" (Washington Post via MSN):
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Pretty easy to explain this.

Suppose you had a cheating voting machine. Where would you put it? I'd put it in counties that are deep red and change a smallish percentage of the vote, so that the county remained red but not quite so red. Do this in enough places and you flip the state.

Not that I'm suggesting this happened, of course. Just pointing out that this isn't particularly good evidence against a conspiracy.
 
Firestone said:
Anger because now Trump & co are also threatening "real Americans"?

I mean, the "lock her up", "2nd amendment solutions", "treason" talk, have been going on for years.
Now he's angry? Now he sees that's not OK.

Better this guy than the sycophants who still follow Trump (yes, Ted Cruz, you too), but really, nothing Trump and co are doing now should come as surprise to anyone.
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Now the targets are his colleagues and employees and he has taken an official stand. Whether he should have privately taken a stand previously is a whole separate matter. Pretty common for folks to take a stand only against the opposition after all.

I've never taken a public stand against threats of violence by Trump's followers or, oh, I don't know, Antifa? Do they make threats? If they do, I ain't never said anything publicly about it and if I did, no one would give a damn.

This guy is a bit more authoritative than me, sure, but I don't necessarily criticize him for not speaking out until the threats fell on the turf of his office. (I will certainly critize Congressmen who never comment on Trump's abhorrent behavior, because that's a lot more in their purview.)
 
phiwum said:
Pretty easy to explain this.

Suppose you had a cheating voting machine. Where would you put it? I'd put it in counties that are deep red and change a smallish percentage of the vote, so that the county remained red but not quite so red. Do this in enough places and you flip the state.

Not that I'm suggesting this happened, of course. Just pointing out that this isn't particularly good evidence against a conspiracy.
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Well, no evidence against a conspiracy is needed. At least not as long as no evidence FOR one exists.

Hans
 
Trump Tweets

“Nevada 'fraud': 1,500 ‘dead’ voters, 42,248 voted ‘multiple times,’ RV camps as 'homes'”
The Trump campaign on Wednesday unveiled a tranche of information it plans to present to a Nevada state court Thursday that suggests that there were thousands of fraudulent votes cast -- possibly...
washingtonexaminer.com
 
Trump Tweets

Dominion contractor at Detroit counting center says thousands of ballots were scanned multiple times
Melissa Carone provided Tuesday evening testimony in Michigan
justthenews.com

Pro-Biden effort offered Native Americans $25-$500 Visa gift cards, jewelry to vote
Key Native American leaders working with the Biden campaign offered tribal members and associates Visa gift cards, jewelry and other “swag” to vote in the presidential election, according to several...
washingtonexaminer.com
 
There was supposed to be a hearing on an actual fraud case in Nevada, where Republicans were going to actually put actual evidence in front of an actual court.

But, actually, it appears they dropped the case.

https://knpr.org/headline/2020-12/nevada-gop-drop-federal-voter-fraud-lawsuit

I'm not absolutely certain the case in the story above is the same case I was expecting to be heard today, but I think it is. It's so hard to keep all of them straight. They seem to all have the same themes, and all have the same outcomes, so they end up all looking the same.



ETA: The lawsuit I was expecting to get a hearing was the one referenced in this story: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tr...n-office-ahead-of-thursday-hearing-on-lawsuit. It's not clear to me if that was the same lawsuit dropped later that day.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Rudy Tweets

ELECTION IN GEORGIA IS NOW PROVEN TO BE A FRAUD.
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(Sigh) Sometimes I think the basic problem with politics in the US today is that there are entirely too many people who don't actually understand what that word means, led by too many others who do but don't care as long as they can use it to fleece the first set.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Well, no evidence against a conspiracy is needed. At least not as long as no evidence FOR one exists.

Hans
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I was just pointing out that a reasonably intelligent believer in the theft of the election would not be persuaded by such reasoning.

Yes, yes, I know, everyone will balk at that phrase "reasonably intelligent believer" but in fact I think they exist. Most conspiracy theories sucker in some reasonably intelligent folks and this one has the advantage of an authority pushing it.

I don't talk politics to too many Trumpers. One old college buddy I talk to once in a while. I don't talk politics to my Okie family, because it's useless. I have a friend at the marina who is a Trump supporter. I don't know him too well, but last time I saw him, he was speaking glowingly of Sidney Powell and totally buys into the theft of the election narrative. Aside from his wholehearted support of the president, he always struck me as reasonably intelligent, but I'll admit that I don't know him well enough to make a confident judgment.
 
hurdygurdy said:
The Dear Leader couldn't be left out of the Bolivarian team that stole the elections

Roger Stone Says North Korean Boats Delivered Ballots Through Maine Harbor As Trump Boosts Fraud Claims
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I just learned of absolute incontrovertible evidence of North Korean boats delivering ballots through a harbor in Maine, the state of Maine, Stone said. If this checks out, ....
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First sentence says he has "absolute incontrovertible evidence". The second sentence undermines the first. Trump does have the best people around him ... the best at making "absolute incontrovertible" fools of themselves.
 
SezMe said:
First sentence says he has "absolute incontrovertible evidence". The second sentence undermines the first. Trump does have the best people around him ... the best at making "absolute incontrovertible" fools of themselves.
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When I see "Roger Stone says..." I know that what follows is utter crap.
 
Meadmaker said:
There was supposed to be a hearing on an actual fraud case in Nevada, where Republicans were going to actually put actual evidence in front of an actual court.

But, actually, it appears they dropped the case.

https://knpr.org/headline/2020-12/nevada-gop-drop-federal-voter-fraud-lawsuit

I'm not absolutely certain the case in the story above is the same case I was expecting to be heard today, but I think it is. It's so hard to keep all of them straight. They seem to all have the same themes, and all have the same outcomes, so they end up all looking the same.



ETA: The lawsuit I was expecting to get a hearing was the one referenced in this story: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tr...n-office-ahead-of-thursday-hearing-on-lawsuit. It's not clear to me if that was the same lawsuit dropped later that day.
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the lawsuit that is still active is no doubt the one with ALL the evidence.
 
phiwum said:
I was just pointing out that a reasonably intelligent believer in the theft of the election would not be persuaded by such reasoning.

Yes, yes, I know, everyone will balk at that phrase "reasonably intelligent believer" but in fact I think they exist. Most conspiracy theories sucker in some reasonably intelligent folks and this one has the advantage of an authority pushing it.

I don't talk politics to too many Trumpers. One old college buddy I talk to once in a while. I don't talk politics to my Okie family, because it's useless. I have a friend at the marina who is a Trump supporter. I don't know him too well, but last time I saw him, he was speaking glowingly of Sidney Powell and totally buys into the theft of the election narrative. Aside from his wholehearted support of the president, he always struck me as reasonably intelligent, but I'll admit that I don't know him well enough to make a confident judgment.
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can you engage this person on this issue, even very gently at first?
 
Trump Tweets

People in Georgia got caught cold bringing in massive numbers of ballots and putting them in “voting” machines. Great job @BrianKempGA!

Governor @dougducey of Arizona hired a lawyer today. Wouldn’t allowing a strong check of ballots, which would be easier and so much better for our Country, be easier on him and the great State of Arizona?
 
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