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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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Matthew Ellard said:
So Trump finished the wall in time? Has Mexico paid yet?
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I have it on good authority (Trump supporters on Instagram) that Mexico has indeed paid for the walls :thumbsup: .

They also informed me that when we make accusations of Trump lying, we are just splitting hairs. And that the lists of lies by Politico et al are "fake", whatever that means.
 
It is interesting how the "argument from incredulity" cuts both ways when it comes to the Election.

That is a good indication that, all in all, it was a fair election.
 
Aridas said:
Hmm? I'm going to echo acbytesla here a bit. Trump managed to make the election very much about Trump, because that's the way Trump works.

Trump is horrendous. He was propped up by extremely biased right-wing propaganda and lies and the very divisive partisanship that the right wing has been ever more successful with since right wing extremist activists worked to steal control of various organizations like the NRA and use them to spread divisive disinformation for political ends.

Most of the country is very well aware of this, with some of the country intensely disturbed by how remarkably well the Trump era has mirrored Germany in the period just before the Nazis seized power and trying to prevent that from happening again. It looks like we've succeeded, at least to stave that off, either way.



"Hot" as in extremist right-wing terrorism will continue to rise? Sure, maybe, because of the manufactured outrage over nonsense that the right so loves. An actual civil war? I suppose if the right keeps working to make it so that American citizens DON'T get a fair chance and then keep effectively redirecting that dissatisfaction towards those who are actually trying to make it so that they will get a fair chance, it might get there, but it would be incredibly messy and likely very quickly doomed.



I'd call this largely a fair statement. There are, in fact, very significant differences that are the case when it comes to people on the left compared to the right, but there would likely be some similar behavior as the result, albeit expressed differently. Also... it may be worth it to point out that "we know that there is something deeply rotten in America today, and that sooner or later, what we know of as America might simply stop" as being something that's the case anyways, regardless of this election.



Not just them, of course. To be perfectly clear, though, said "black bloc brats" are largely not appreciated by most of the protestors, and pretty clearly not by BLM. Moving past that, though, there's distinct hypocrisy in the way (especially, but not only) right wing propaganda treats those morons compared to the various other intentional causers of damage and bad behavior.



by Bubba View Post
and the guy who said "I am 100% Antifa" murdered someone in Portland.
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By his own telling, it was in self-defense, which, given that the person he killed had already gone well out of their way to cause harm to others is entirely feasible - and then that guy was hunted down and murdered, himself, after having made it perfectly clear that he was willing submit to the Justice system and be put on trial for his actions. Invoking that case does NOT help your argument, even before you get to the various police officers and citizens that right wing terrorists are already killing anyways.
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Not true. Security cams have Mr 100% Antifa stalking his victim, pulling his gun while concealed, and then, off camera, shooting the victim, who was seen walking on sidewalk close to where Mr Antifa had been concealed. Victim and companion had just exited parking garage nearby.
 
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Bubba said:
Not true. Security cams have Mr 100% Antifa stalking his victim, pulling his gun while concealed, and then, off camera, shooting the victim, who was seen walking on sidewalk close to where Mr Antifa had been concealed. Victim and companion had just exited parking garage nearby.
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that is one interpretation.

it is also wrong.
 
Delvo said:
Bubba's denialism of the fact that Trump lost is pitiful, but one of the posts (s)he made about it somewhere back there contained some things that Democrats seem to have equally pitiful denialism over. And the latter is more self-destructive; it will do its bearers more harm if they don't snap out of it.

This election was a failure for Democrats in every way except the fact that Trump lost. Biden underperformed even the worst-case-scenario projections, getting 306 when he was supposed to get 320-360. Trump's share of various demographic groups that the Democrats think they own, such as black, Latino, homosexual, and I think women (not sure on that last one, not going looking for it) only increased since last time. Regardless of which way the two Senate runoffs go, the Democrats will have lost a bunch of seats in Congress. The Senate probably won't end up in the best-case scenario for Democrats, looking like a tie with a Democrat tiebreaker, but even if it does, that won't do any good legislatively because they seldom have 100% agreement within their own party; some like Manchin have already declared their intention to vote with Republicans on certain issues. Yes, Trump's spectacular self-immolation is the most highly visible part of the big picture, and there were a few Republican losses in Congress, but those are little blue dents in the red wave.

Trump loss deniers seem to claim that this somehow means Trump couldn't have really lost, as if it weren't possible for multiple simultaneous elections to fail to all favor the same party. Of course it doesn't really mean that; it just means that Trump was so terrible that he managed to motivate a record level of votes against himself, even from people who had no interest at all in voting for Biden and voted more for other Republicans but not Trump. But one election out of lots & lots of simultaneous elections does not define the overall pattern and the overall pattern here is perfectly clear. Aside from the big distracting outlier, the people have made an unmistakable statement that they do not see the Democrats as offering what they want; the overall result is a thorough repudiation of Trump individually, and of democrats generally. And most Democrats are continuing to pay no attention to that fact.
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LOL! You don't think the Dems learned a thing or two?

Cry more, snowflake! ;)
 
Bubba said:
Not true. Security cams have Mr 100% Antifa stalking his victim, pulling his gun while concealed, and then, off camera, shooting the victim, who was seen walking on sidewalk close to where Mr Antifa had been concealed. Victim and companion had just exited parking garage nearby.
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Too bad that we'll not see that evidence reviewed (and that interpretation likely shown to be utter BS) in court, given that he was murdered after the right-wing extremists pushed for his murder so hard.

But whatever. We already know that the left didn't do the same to all those numerous right wing murderers.
 
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Bubba said:
Not true. Security cams have Mr 100% Antifa stalking his victim, pulling his gun while concealed, and then, off camera, shooting the victim, who was seen walking on sidewalk close to where Mr Antifa had been concealed. Victim and companion had just exited parking garage nearby.
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"According to the police affidavit, Danielson had a loaded Glock pistol in a holster and was holding a can of bear spray and an expandable metal baton"
https://www.chicagotribune.com/nati...0200905-qmmfvsredjfrbfy3z2htcqrecm-story.html

Really? You are lying again Bubba. Show us these security video.
 
Delvo said:
This election was a failure for Democrats in every way except the fact that Trump lost. Biden underperformed even the worst-case-scenario projections, getting 306 when he was supposed to get 320-360. Trump's share of various demographic groups that the Democrats think they own, such as black, Latino, homosexual, and I think women (not sure on that last one, not going looking for it) only increased since last time. Regardless of which way the two Senate runoffs go, the Democrats will have lost a bunch of seats in Congress. The Senate probably won't end up in the best-case scenario for Democrats, looking like a tie with a Democrat tiebreaker, but even if it does, that won't do any good legislatively because they seldom have 100% agreement within their own party; some like Manchin have already declared their intention to vote with Republicans on certain issues. Yes, Trump's spectacular self-immolation is the most highly visible part of the big picture, and there were a few Republican losses in Congress, but those are little blue dents in the red wave.
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Well I disagree with this, it's overly pessimistic and not really reflective of what happened. In one hand, the Dems also over performed in Congress during the midterms, and may even take the Senate majority. It's obviously disappointing that they didn't win a few more seats, but that brings me to my next point.

pollsters this year again were people who didn't know what they were talking about and thought that Biden was going to win a landslide and the dems were going to clean up in both the House and Senate, but instead Biden merely won convincingly and dems have a real chance at holding a majority in both houses of congress, is something that's Biden's or the Dem's fault. but it was their bad projections that set unrealistic expectations that you're point out the dems couldn't meet.

they simply had terrible projections. people think Trump was a joke opponent because he's an idiot, but he wasn't. he got 73M votes, you need to realize he wasn't nearly as unpopular as you were led to believe and neither is the R party.
 
Bubba said:
J
1. 80 Million Votes

Holy moly! A lot of Americans turned out for a Washington politician who’s been in office for nearly 50 years. Consider this: no incumbent president in nearly a century and a half has gained votes in a re-election campaign and still lost.

President Trump gained more than ten million votes since his 2016 victory, but Biden’s appeal was so substantial that it overcame President Trump’s record support among minority voters. Biden also shattered Barack Obama’s own popular vote totals, really calling into question whether it was not perhaps Biden who pulled Obama across the finish lines in 2008 and 2012.

Proving how sharp his political instincts are, the former VP managed to gather a record number of votes while consistently trailing President Trump in measures of voter enthusiasm. Biden was so savvy that he motivated voters unenthusiastic about his campaign to vote for him in record numbers.


https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/
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The author completely misses the point of what happened. He is right that Joe Biden was uninspiring, and didn't do much of anything to get out the vote.

This election was all about Trump. I kind of like Joe Biden. He's not awful, but he's way too old to take on the Presidency. However, he has one characteristic that made him very, very, appealing.

He is not Donald Trump.

Donald Trump inspired millions of new voters who had never voted before to come out and vote. The problem is that he inspired more people to vote against him than to vote for him.

Read a George Will column for Pete's sake. George Will. Recognize that name? All my life, a Republican columnist, until 2016...or was it 2017 that he made it official. I don't remember. There are lots of people like George Will who are staunch conservatives, and solid Republicans, who would never under any circumstances vote for Donald Trump, and in many cases would do anything they could to get rid of him.

Trump's negatives were just too high to win re-election.

And we are not told that Joe Biden won, we counted the votes. Joe had more or them.
 
TellyKNeasuss said:
I can't say that I agree that this election was a repudiation of the Democratic Party. I think that you're basing your conclusion on them not doing as well as the polls predicted. The Democrats are in much better shape than they were 4 years ago. They lost seats in the House, but they gained an unusually large amount in 2018, so I don't know that this represents any sort of significant long-term shift in the electorate. They picked up at least 1 seat in the Senate. I will agree, however, that the Democrats ran a poor campaign, such as focusing too much on the pandemic.
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Because bungling the handling of a pandemic that has already killed >250,000 people wasn't an important issue? :eye-poppi
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Because bungling the handling of a pandemic that has already killed >250,000 people wasn't an important issue? :eye-poppi
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It's an important issue, but not the only one, by far. This goes back to your oft repeated complaint, though. Democrats are generally bad at messaging in comparison to Republicans. In the end, the pandemic was a good reason to vote against Trump, but I didn't get the impression that it was used all that well to make the issue actually pro-Biden or more generally pro-Democrat. Same for a lot else, really. Biden was sold strongly as... a decent guy. That, in reality, is incredibly tepid as a pro-Biden thing. Biden, policy-wise, was vastly better in pretty much every way. Policy was never all that much of a focus for the campaigning, though, which let the GOP try nearly unimpeded to shape the conversation about what Biden would actually push.
 
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Some internet guy's opinion



THIS FROM CNN'S FAREED ZAKARIA, OF ALL PLACES....You think they are starting to get very, very nervous? Considering their stance towards Trump & on the election, payback could be brutal - and should be. What he means is that if the electoral college does not make a decision AND the Congress does not accept it, the choice falls on the US House of Representatives - where every state has one vote, so (e.g.) Delaware or Mississippi have the same voting power as California or New York....
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https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1815486088592059&set=a.649702165170463
 
Bubba said:
Some internet guy's opinion






https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1815486088592059&set=a.649702165170463
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The governors or secretaries of state/of the commonwealth have already summoned the Democrat slate of electors in Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Arizona and Nevada will soon do that same. The EC will elect Joe Biden. No state legislature will convene to seat new electors. Trump's "legal and landscaping team" and that Powell person just lose and lose and lose. They don't even allege fraud in court.
 
Bubba said:
Not true. Security cams have Mr 100% Antifa stalking his victim, pulling his gun while concealed, and then, off camera, shooting the victim, who was seen walking on sidewalk close to where Mr Antifa had been concealed. Victim and companion had just exited parking garage nearby.
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Being as both are dead and not from a swing state, what they hell does this have to do with the election?
 
Darat said:
No, they only objected when too many people voted the wrong way...
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The concurring statement by Justice Wecht is worth a read:

Having delayed this suit until two elections were conducted under Act 77’s new, no-excuse mail-in voting system, Petitioners—several of whom participated in primary elections under this system without complaint—play a dangerous game at the expense of every Pennsylvania voter. Petitioners waived their opportunity to challenge Act 77 before the election, choosing instead to “lay by and gamble upon receiving a favorable decision of the electorate.”
Unsatisfied with the results of that wager, they would now flip over the table, scattering to the shadows the votes of millions of Pennsylvanians. It is not our role to lend legitimacy to such transparent and untimely efforts to subvert the will of Pennsylvania voters.
Courts should not decide elections when the will of the voters is clear.


http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opini...Concurring Statement (J. Wecht)final.pdf?cb=2
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(bodling mine)
 
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