Massive Blast in Lebanon

ponderingturtle said:
But the idea of leaving thousands of tons of explosives on a ship in highly poor condition seems so well thought out.
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Well obviously what they did with it was so much better thought out, right? :rolleyes:

It was deemed un-seaworthy. Maybe deliberately sinking it would have been best.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Massive algae bloom though.
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Possibly. But given the state of most busy harbours not much of a problem.

Mike! said:
In that case, it clearly would have been better to let it sink with the ship that was carrying it in the first place.
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Yes.

Delvo said:
Especially since, at the time when they took it off the ship, they had no reason to think the ship would sink anyway.
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There was some suggestion of hull plates cracking (the hull was drastically lengthened) and a hole large enough to require constant pumping.
 
catsmate said:
Possibly. But given the state of most busy harbours not much of a problem.


Yes.


There was some suggestion of hull plates cracking (the hull was drastically lengthened) and a hole large enough to require constant pumping.
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Not a hole, that would have been obvious and patched. More likely leaking glands on prop shaft, water inlets and outlets for engine cooling and fire main etc and maybe cracked welds.

Some ships always have wet bilges as they get older.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Not a hole, that would have been obvious and patched. More likely leaking glands on prop shaft, water inlets and outlets for engine cooling and fire main etc and maybe cracked welds.

Some ships always have wet bilges as they get older.
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The former master mentioned "a small hole" but gave no details. I wonder what effect the 50m stretch in the hull had to the hull's integrity? I can't access Lloyds from home so I don't know where the work was done.
 
catsmate said:
The former master mentioned "a small hole" but gave no details. I wonder what effect the 50m stretch in the hull had to the hull's integrity? I can't access Lloyds from home so I don't know where the work was done.
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Depends how well the work was done.
 
catsmate said:
Indeed, but it's a very significant alteration to the hull.
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Ships of that type are built on a modular form, the length can be changed by adding extra hull units.
For a competent yard with a proper marine architect it's not a difficult job.
It would depends on the age and condition of the hull being lengthened of course.
I don't think the problems with the ship were the hull integrity though, they were the general onboard conditions of SOLAS compliance and crew accommodation.
It sank at it's mooring because it was more or less abandoned.
 
Wolrab said:
Why didn't they just give it or sell it to Lebanese farmers?
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This got a few legalistic & financialistic responses before the Hezbollah fantasy came out, but there's also another factor. Suppose they had some way straightening out the legal & financial issues and just seizing it under some kind of "abandoned cargo" law & figuring they might need to pay later if sued. So now the government owns the cargo and could give it to the country's farms if they were so inclined.

It still wouldn't be useful for Lebanese farms. It's mainly used for grain crops and/or in high-yield environments. Lebanon is a dry environment that depends on imports for its grains and grain-dependent livestock. It does grow lots of apples, peaches, pears, citrus fruits, olives, dates, and figs, but those don't call for nitrogen fertilizer. When you pluck a fruit and leave the tree behind, the total loss of organic mass per acre of land is low enough for natural nitrogen sources to keep up with. In fact, more nitrogen could tend to shift a fruit tree's resources a bit away from making fruits and more into making leaves, which is the opposite of what the farmers & their customers want.

Too much nitrogen fertilizer can also result in soil acidification, so I thought that might be another reason for Lebanon not to use it, but, after a bit of looking around, that doesn't seem to be a big concern for Lebanon. If anything, they might even have the opposite problem: higher pH than they want. (If you read about Lebanese soil yourself, notice any references to calcium; calcium tends to increase soil pH.) So at least adding nitrogen fertilizer might not be disastrous. But still, for the way farms work in that country, it just wouldn't be helpful either and might be slightly detrimental.
 
Delvo said:
This got a few legalistic & financialistic responses before the Hezbollah fantasy came out, but there's also another factor. Suppose they had some way straightening out the legal & financial issues and just seizing it under some kind of "abandoned cargo" law & figuring they might need to pay later if sued. So now the government owns the cargo and could give it to the country's farms if they were so inclined.

It still wouldn't be useful for Lebanese farms. It's mainly used for grain crops and/or in high-yield environments. Lebanon is a dry environment that depends on imports for its grains and grain-dependent livestock. It does grow lots of apples, peaches, pears, citrus fruits, olives, dates, and figs, but those don't call for nitrogen fertilizer. When you pluck a fruit and leave the tree behind, the total loss of organic mass per acre of land is low enough for natural nitrogen sources to keep up with. In fact, more nitrogen could tend to shift a fruit tree's resources a bit away from making fruits and more into making leaves, which is the opposite of what the farmers & their customers want.

Too much nitrogen fertilizer can also result in soil acidification, so I thought that might be another reason for Lebanon not to use it, but, after a bit of looking around, that doesn't seem to be a big concern for Lebanon. If anything, they might even have the opposite problem: higher pH than they want. (If you read about Lebanese soil yourself, notice any references to calcium; calcium tends to increase soil pH.) So at least adding nitrogen fertilizer might not be disastrous. But still, for the way farms work in that country, it just wouldn't be helpful either and might be slightly detrimental.
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Thank you. This correlates with what I've googled since my post.
 
Delvo said:
This got a few legalistic & financialistic responses before the Hezbollah fantasy came out, but there's also another factor. Suppose they had some way straightening out the legal & financial issues and just seizing it under some kind of "abandoned cargo" law & figuring they might need to pay later if sued. So now the government owns the cargo and could give it to the country's farms if they were so inclined.

It still wouldn't be useful for Lebanese farms. It's mainly used for grain crops and/or in high-yield environments. Lebanon is a dry environment that depends on imports for its grains and grain-dependent livestock. It does grow lots of apples, peaches, pears, citrus fruits, olives, dates, and figs, but those don't call for nitrogen fertilizer. When you pluck a fruit and leave the tree behind, the total loss of organic mass per acre of land is low enough for natural nitrogen sources to keep up with. In fact, more nitrogen could tend to shift a fruit tree's resources a bit away from making fruits and more into making leaves, which is the opposite of what the farmers & their customers want.

Too much nitrogen fertilizer can also result in soil acidification, so I thought that might be another reason for Lebanon not to use it, but, after a bit of looking around, that doesn't seem to be a big concern for Lebanon. If anything, they might even have the opposite problem: higher pH than they want. (If you read about Lebanese soil yourself, notice any references to calcium; calcium tends to increase soil pH.) So at least adding nitrogen fertilizer might not be disastrous. But still, for the way farms work in that country, it just wouldn't be helpful either and might be slightly detrimental.
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That's an excellent point and one I was unaware of, knowing bugger all about agronomy.
Thank you.
 
The derail into Hezbollah's alleged involvement has gone here.
Posted By: Agatha
 
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