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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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Emily's Cat said:
:covereyes I was attempting to say that facts don't matter to the public who are going to see constant challenging and questioning of the validity and lose trust in the government regardless of which party is in there and regardless of whether the challenges have any basis in fact or not.
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Didn't you argue elsewhere that Trump's refusal to accept the results of the election is doing no serious damage to the country?

I know the conversation has moved on; I'll just say its ridiculous to compare Trump's behavior now to random Democratic grumbling about the "legitimacy" his presidency. The Mueller investigation and impeachment proceedings didn't come close.

And as for the highlighted - I can think of a couple of posters here who would consider that result to be a feature, not a bug of our adversarial two-party system.
 
Emily's Cat said:
That sounds suspiciously like "kill all political opponents".

Which sounds neither democratic nor anti-fascist.
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No, it actually doesn't "sound" like that all, suspiciously or otherwise.

We know where the "second amendment solutions" originate. Being prepared to respond to that isn't an entirely bad idea.
 
dudalb said:
Admit we have a mass Fascist movement on our hands, and rememeber those are seldom defeated by peaceful means alone.
My own advice: buy a rifle and learn how to use it.
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Yeah, a civil war is just what the US needs right now :rolleyes: .

You have to look at the roots of the problem. Social inequality, lack of social mobility, the post-fact society the US, especially the Trump crowd, has slipped into, the belief that immigrants and/or people with dark skin are dangerous or out to take American citizens' jobs, the (often completely accurate) impression that "the elite" doesn't care about them.

The problem is, the same people who would benefit the most from social welfare reform are also the ones who scream the loudest about "socialism" whenever these reforms are proposed.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
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He surely doesn't believe what he is posting.
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Some of the tweets from Trump just don't strike me as coming from him. The ones with ALL CAPS seem original but the ones that, for instance, cite statistics don't ring authentic to me. I have no idea what percentage are actually his but it's not minuscule. This only serves to further cloud the question of what he believes. In some cases, mostly prior to the election, I don't have any confidence that even *he* knows what he believes.
 
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Election count update.

Getting close to that 6 million vote marin.

Biden: 79,309,792

Trump: 73,476,952

Difference: 5,832,840

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Pennsylvania:

Biden: 3,445,933

Trump: 3,364,261

Difference: 81,672

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Georgia
Georgia's recount has been completed, but a risk limiting audit has not finished. It is required to be completed by midnight ET. There was one big error involving 2600 votes and a few minor ones. Trump did cut into Biden's 14,012 vote lead. Biden now leads Trump in Georgia by 12,781 votes.
 
Meadmaker said:
I'm pretty sure that what he meant was that her kids would be embarrassed in school to be associated with her, after her racist attempt to disenfranchise black people.

And the redaction was pretty pathetic. If you live in this neighborhood, you know what he said. He basically said that they live in a mostly white suburb, right next to the City of Detroit. It's kind of weird to even be there. You cross Mack Avenue and when you look to the left, you see a wealthy suburb, and you look to the right, you see a run down city with decrepit buildings.
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That's exactly what he meant. He came right out and said in his tweets that Palmer is a racist.
 
Emily's Cat said:
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Actually, whether or not he asks for it really doesn't matter. It's not going to occur, no matter how much he belly-aches.
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I quite disagree. Asking, or even just suggesting, *anything* remotely resembling a coup should be met with loud, repeated denunciations from members of ALL political parties. It matters that Trump believes this possibility exists in the real world and it matters even more that his fellow party members don't have the cojones to speak out against him

ETA: I think Dr. Keith said much the same thing
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Aric Nesbitt Senate President Pro Tempore tweeted

@aricnesbitt
This afternoon, I joined my colleagues in calling for a full, independent audit of the recent election prior to the certification of results. We have seen a number of allegations that range from outright fraud, if true, to terrible mistakes that need to be corrected.
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I agree, Trump's accusations are outright fraud.

Mitch McConnell said yesterday, "We are going to have an orderly transfer from this administration to the next one." He could have been talking about a second Trump administration. Earlier he said, "There will be an orderly transition just as there has been every four years since 1792." So he's going in four-year increments, even if the incumbent stays in office.
 
Minoosh said:
Mitch McConnell said yesterday, "We are going to have an orderly transfer from this administration to the next one." He could have been talking about a second Trump administration. Earlier he said, "There will be an orderly transition just as there has been every four years since 1792." So he's going in four-year increments, even if the incumbent stays in office.
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Trump is vile, but Moscow Mitch is contemptible.
 
Paul2 said:
I'm totally with you, but you and I and non-Trump folk are going to have to start to figure out how to minimize the effect of all that, because it's not going away, even if Trump leaves the White House on Jan 20, or even if we never hear from him again. Someone else will be there to leverage his base for themselves the way he did, and just as much damage (and quite possibly more damage) to democracy can be done. We better start figuring out how to prevent even more damage.

I await the pros and the profs to let us know what the average citizen can do.
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Not a pro nor prof, but I think it's important to recognise that the Trump base is not monolithic. Trump's lack of definition creates a comfortable space for diverse groups, and that diversity has to be identified and exploited. Turn Q against non-Q. The fractiousness of the far-right is generally its undoing.
 
@Fast Eddie
Re: getting a rifle and learning how to use it...


It just might permit one to defends one’s self, family and/or property in the event of civil unrest. Seems like good insurance, even if the eventuality is unlikely.

I know I feel better having options.
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In the event of civil unrest, handguns are a better option, and cheaper.
 
ponderingturtle said:
The how can I possibly be charged with attempted murder, did you see how incompetent my attempt was! Defense.

How competent does an attempt at something need to be to be classified as not really an attempt?

Was the New York Times right to downplay the risks of Hitler's Antisemitism in 1922? I mean look at how incompetent his beer hall putsch was as a coup. When did he become a real threat?
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While you spin your wheels in the tediousness of defining what is is, Trump's path to a coup or an election reversal has become less and less likely.

Does it count if Trump is actually just drumming up an audience for his new right-wing talk show?
 
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