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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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Myriad said:
More like, "Bank robbery has repeatedly been shown to be more than sufficiently difficult and detectable to be confident that the current economic downturn was not caused by large amounts of money being surreptitiously robbed from banks."
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Yeah, there's a bit of an imbalance (to put it kindly) between the problem demonstrated and the problem necessary. Which is why the "Schrodinger's Fraud" framing is invoked- if you can't show detectable fraud (or just error) on the scale needed to meaningfully affect this election, then you just assume that the requisite amount is present in a way that is not only undetected, but undetectable. And it's a one-size-fits-all solution- whether it's a hundred votes in an alderman's race or a few hundred thousand in one for President, "we just can't know, man!" is the last refuge, a fortress of doubt that can't be breached. You can never lose if you never admit any definition of losing.
 
pgwenthold said:
I'm kind of confused. The Trumpets dropped the case based on "mootness," but isn't the whole point that flipping Arizona would keep hopes alive?

What changed since yesterday to make it moot? The only thing I know is that media has now called Arizona for Trump. But the trumpet view is that the media doesn't determine the outcome of the election. The filing says, "The tally of the votes makes the case moot." But they were supposed to be contesting the tally of the votes?

They appear to be conceding that the vote tally in Arizona is accurate.
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My guess is that what changed is that the hearing yesterday was a disaster for the Trump lawyers. Not one of their witnesses actually testified about fraud, and the lawyers had to admit that the case was very limited in scope (maximum 190 ballots), and wasn't about fraud. :D

Trump attorney tells Maricopa County judge that vote challenge is not about fraud or election theft
 
pgwenthold said:
I'm kind of confused. The Trumpets dropped the case based on "mootness," but isn't the whole point that flipping Arizona would keep hopes alive?

What changed since yesterday to make it moot? The only thing I know is that media has now called Arizona for Trump. But the trumpet view is that the media doesn't determine the outcome of the election. The filing says, "The tally of the votes makes the case moot." But they were supposed to be contesting the tally of the votes?

They appear to be conceding that the vote tally in Arizona is accurate.
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I missed that????
 
Bob001 said:
Here's what real election fraud look like:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ampaign=majorinvestigations&utm_content=river
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And here is another example of what real election fraud looks like

Dodge City, for starters only has one polling place for more than 13,000 registered voters. On 2018, they moved that polling place two and a half miles from the city to an exhibition hall into a predominantly white, Republican neighbourhood, making it difficult for the city's predominately Latino population to get to the polling station on a workday.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...polling-place-voter-suppression-voting-rights

Voter suppression is election fraud by any measure you like to name

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/09/2...ow-the-gop-works-to-suppress-minority-voting/
 
Vixen said:
That can mean either two things: the lawyers have been sacked by their client or they decline to represent them further, usually because of 'no reasonable prospect of success' or unpaid fees.
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Funny, with the Trump phenomenon, all of these seem equally probable :p .
 
shuttlt said:
Wasn't the Lincoln Project handing out the names and contact detail of their staff and clients and encouraging people to harass them? This is not a good thing.
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Weren't some participants in this thread making plans to kill democratic poll watchers?

See? I can make claims without providing any evidence, too.
 
Meadmaker said:
In case anyone wants to read about another dismissed lawsuit, the Wayne County judge has dismissed that one.

https://www.scribd.com/document/484...60149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

Plenty more in Michigan that will be dismissed soon enough.
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Perhaps if the Plaintiffs' election officers affiants had attended the October 29, 2020 walk-through of the TCF Center ballot counting location, questions and concerns could have been answered in advance of election day...[they] did not have a full understanding of teh TCF absent ballot tabulation process.
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To put it mildly, they were clueless about how the process works.
 
pgwenthold said:
To put it mildly, they were clueless about how the process works.
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Exactly. I would like at this time to recognize Devil's Advocate, who in an earlier post described one of the exact things at work in this case.

One of the affiants in this case claimed that they were instructed not to compare signatures, which is a requirement in Michigan. The judge noted that was because by the time the ballots got to her, they had already been signature checked. DA used that as an example in an earlier post.


It's all so predictable.
 
Firestone said:
NMeanwhile, in the real world, the Trump campaign effectively drops its case against Maricopa county, AZ.

https://twitter.com/NicoleSganga/status/1327305969739640838?s=19

Elsewhere, a Michigan judge has rejected a GOP effort to stop the certification of election results in Wayne County pending an audit —*"sinister, fraudulent motives were ascribed ... Plaintiffs' interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible".

The judge's rather scathing text, embedded in the tweet, is worth a read.

https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1327315886802341889?s=19
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What's that... 0 for 18 now?
 
trustbutverify said:
Or people paying someone to take their SAT tests, and then using family members to do their college coursework.
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As an accountant I have had to study fraud and on receiving the literature I was amazed at the numerous and ingenious ways people commit fraud. Plus I have had two bosses who were active embezzlers plus work colleagues who perpetrated a £30k under my nose ( yes, I reported it all, for zero thanks ) using very sophisticated methods, accountancy exam centres need stewards doing a 'sweep' of the toilets as cheating candidates often stash crib notes behind pipes and what have you to sneak a glance at half way through the exams. People cheat! You always have to be one step ahead of them and on the alert. But knowing people will cheat given half a chance is not the same thing as 'there might have been fraud in the US 2020 election'. I daresay there will be organised criminal enterprises with this aim in mind but they would need to get past some very tough electoral controls developed over the years to thwart such an attempt.
 
Vixen said:
That can mean either two things: the lawyers have been sacked by their client or they decline to represent them further, usually because of 'no reasonable prospect of success' or unpaid fees.

Plus they could get into trouble for bringing their profession into disrepute.
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I'd be picking the second and last reasons.

There isn't much that will get a law firm a bad reputation more quickly than representing clients in their frivolous lawsuits, and there isn't much that will get a lawyer sanctioned quicker than wasting the court's time by appearing in front of the judge with no evidence.

A few judges have made it clear that they are less than pleased... one told a Trump lawyer "don't quit your day job"
 
smartcooky said:
A few judges have made it clear that they are less than pleased... one told a Trump lawyer "don't quit your day job"
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I think that was a reference to the lawyer's artwork. The lawyer had handed the judge a hand drawn map of the counting center.
 
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