Cont: Biden for President? Pt 2

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DevilsAdvocate said:
If Lincoln called for the senate to convene, it would have been big news. That would have gone out on the telegraphs to all the newspapers.

<<Respectful snip>>

Nearly the full senate probably could have been assembled within 5 days. A quorum probably could have been assembled in a day or two.
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So, the key difference is that Lincoln had no need to rush the process because he was confident that he would win and have the votes to confirm his choice.

By contrast McConnell sees the writing on the wall that Trump is going to lose and even Lindsey Graham is a "maybe" for the next Senate. If they don't get it done before the election they have to do it as lame ducks who lost both the presidential election and their majority in the Senate. Not that they care, but what a pitiful way to end your party's hold of both the Senate and the White House.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump's hard to "moneyball" but I do think (think) that the fact that Trump has shown that he is literally incapable of any introspective change is hurting him.

Good Presidents, horrible Presidents, effective Presidents, ineffective Presidents, they all showed some sense of self reflection. They changed something about how they governed during their administrations.

Love them or hate them the Bush, Reagan, Clinton, Obama that left office was not the same Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or Obama that took office. The weight of the office had some effect on them, good or bad.

Trump is still Trump. His reaction to everything is "More Trump." Holding the office of President hasn't changed him in the least and... that's weird. Nobody should hold a position that important and come out if it the exact same person.
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That is a very interesting way to look at how Trump will be viewed by historians. The President who never really stopped campaigning never really took on the responsibilities of the office.
 
I almost, almost I said, want to see how Trump would react if he didn't have a toadying Senate to cater to his every whim.

Trump's really never had to deal with a "Check and Balance" of any meaningful sense. I am curious to see how he would react if someone actually told him "No" from a position of real power.

Still better to just get rid of him and the Republican control of the Senate, it goes without saying.
 
Dr. Keith said:
That is a very interesting way to look at how Trump will be viewed by historians. The President who never really stopped campaigning never really took on the responsibilities of the office.
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It sort of makes a terrible sort of sense. I man who never really thought he would win winds up winning and... has nowhere to go from that point.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump's hard to "moneyball" but I do think (think) that the fact that Trump has shown that he is literally incapable of any introspective change is hurting him.

Good Presidents, horrible Presidents, effective Presidents, ineffective Presidents, they all showed some sense of self reflection. They changed something about how they governed during their administrations.

Love them or hate them the Bush, Reagan, Clinton, Obama that left office was not the same Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or Obama that took office. The weight of the office had some effect on them, good or bad.

Trump is still Trump. His reaction to everything is "More Trump." Holding the office of President hasn't changed him in the least and... that's weird. Nobody should hold a position that important and come out if it the exact same person.
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That's what makes Trump so cartoonish-- he's a leader in the style of Skeletor or Cobra Commander, never learning, never adapting, never growing. I don't think it's a coincidence that his fans seem to be childish in character. He's a living cartoon.
 
And even the (I still argue large) base of Trump supporters that elected him just to troll want a troll that's going to have some kind of character arc.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump's hard to "moneyball" but I do think (think) that the fact that Trump has shown that he is literally incapable of any introspective change is hurting him.

Good Presidents, horrible Presidents, effective Presidents, ineffective Presidents, they all showed some sense of self reflection. They changed something about how they governed during their administrations.

Love them or hate them the Bush, Reagan, Clinton, Obama that left office was not the same Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or Obama that took office. The weight of the office had some effect on them, good or bad.

Trump is still Trump. His reaction to everything is "More Trump." Holding the office of President hasn't changed him in the least and... that's weird. Nobody should hold a position that important and come out if it the exact same person.
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I agree, it is often commented how aged our PMs, presidents and the like are after comparatively short terms (say less than 10 years). Anyone with anything like a normal personality is going to be affected deeply by the responsibilities they have to bear and the decisions they have to make.

Trump's illness and personality prevent him from being effected the same way normal(ish) people would be.
 
Craig4 said:
Trump may be falling into the trap some Democrats are, thinking that 2020 is a repeat of 2016. He's doing all the things that worked last time, e-mail scandal, lock them up chants, massive rallies. The e-mail nonsense fell flat, the only people locked up appear to be Trump supporters, and the rallies are hurting him with COVID-19 minded swing voters. He might have had a chance if he recognized that the electorate was conducting an experiment in 2016 and in 2020, they are deciding how that experiment turned out.

ETA: That and he doesn't understand that Biden isn't his opponent, the virus is.
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Considering that he's surrounded himself with nothing but ass-kissing Yes Men, is there any way he couldn't have fallen into this trap?

He decides to hold rallies, and all his Yes Men tell him it's a great idea! He goes to the rallies, and all his Yes Men cheer him, and chant "Lock him up!" He calls the pandemic a hoax, and claims to be immune to it, and says that masks are useless, and all his Yes Men agree with every word.

Why would he ever change anything, given that degree of fawning, boot-licking, ass-kissing affirmation of every stupid thing he says? We know he doesn't have the requisite amount of self-awareness to figure out for himself that he's ****** up, and no one around him will ever tell him, so how could he possibly ever change?
 
Horatius said:
Considering that he's surrounded himself with nothing but ass-kissing Yes Men, is there any way he couldn't have fallen into this trap?

He decides to hold rallies, and all his Yes Men tell him it's a great idea! He goes to the rallies, and all his Yes Men cheer him, and chant "Lock him up!" He calls the pandemic a hoax, and claims to be immune to it, and says that masks are useless, and all his Yes Men agree with every word.

Why would he ever change anything, given that degree of fawning, boot-licking, ass-kissing affirmation of every stupid thing he says? We know he doesn't have the requisite amount of self-awareness to figure out for himself that he's ****** up, and no one around him will ever tell him, so how could he possibly ever change?
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Got it a bit backwards - the need for mindless adulation is a symptom, not a cause.

When people scratch their heads and wonder how he could possibly just flip a table and stomp out of negotiations...um, that's what he's always done, and a large part of why he's always failed at business. He dramatically stomps off when nobody's losing, the other persons just go elsewhere.

Shocked that he hates vets with war injuries? Am I the only person who remembers that he threw a fit when there was braille in his elevators, or when he insulted the Special Olympics?

Surrounds himself with yes-men? Um, yes, he's an emotionally stunted troglodyte who *needs* positive attention. He's always thrown a fit when anyone told him "Uh, that's not a good idea, try this instead.", that's why he stays stepping on rakes. It's his desperate lack of self-esteem that causes both an inability to change course *and* a habit of surrounding himself with yes-men.
 
Mumbles said:
Got it a bit backwards - the need for mindless adulation is a symptom, not a cause.

When people scratch their heads and wonder how he could possibly just flip a table and stomp out of negotiations...um, that's what he's always done, and a large part of why he's always failed at business. He dramatically stomps off when nobody's losing, the other persons just go elsewhere.

Shocked that he hates vets with war injuries? Am I the only person who remembers that he threw a fit when there was braille in his elevators, or when he insulted the Special Olympics?
Surrounds himself with yes-men? Um, yes, he's an emotionally stunted troglodyte who *needs* positive attention. He's always thrown a fit when anyone told him "Uh, that's not a good idea, try this instead.", that's why he stays stepping on rakes. It's his desperate lack of self-esteem that causes both an inability to change course *and* a habit of surrounding himself with yes-men.
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I'm not familiar with this. What is the context (like there ever really is any with him)?
 
Roger Ramjets said:
No, he was thinking of this:-

In cringe-worthy speech, Trump tells Paralympians they were ‘tough to watch’
An address intending to praise, but that instead insulted the elite athletes.
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Yes. The Paralympics is not The Special Olympics. I made the distinction myself, right in that post you quoted.

Then there is this:-

Donald Trump Criticized for Mocking Disabled Reporter
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Yes, but he isn't the Special Olympics.

Trump actually did something good for the Special Olympics, sort of.

I think accuracy is important. Obama is the one who insulted the Special Olympics; Trump insulted the Paralympics.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump's hard to "moneyball" but I do think (think) that the fact that Trump has shown that he is literally incapable of any introspective change is hurting him.

Good Presidents, horrible Presidents, effective Presidents, ineffective Presidents, they all showed some sense of self reflection. They changed something about how they governed during their administrations.

Love them or hate them the Bush, Reagan, Clinton, Obama that left office was not the same Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or Obama that took office. The weight of the office had some effect on them, good or bad.

Trump is still Trump. His reaction to everything is "More Trump." Holding the office of President hasn't changed him in the least and... that's weird. Nobody should hold a position that important and come out if it the exact same person.
Click to expand...

You know what they say: **** in, **** out.
 
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