I don't know, but from a voter point of view it was the easiest to use. That is all I meant. Also, it seems that changing machines every year or two is ripe for tampering. But no-one asks me.
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
2020 Presidential Election
- Thread starter Skeptic Ginger
- Start date
- Status
I don't know, but from a voter point of view it was the easiest to use. That is all I meant. Also, it seems that changing machines every year or two is ripe for tampering. But no-one asks me.
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,576
I wonder about fundamental difference between voting by computer and voting on paper. Making "write-once-only" data storage would be certainly good first step.
But I guess there is value in inherently slower nature of paper ballot.
But I guess there is value in inherently slower nature of paper ballot.
We've already had the "Electronic voting good/bad" slapfight that went on for an entire long thread and there's little point in rehashing the whole thing argument by argument.
But here's the things about America specifically.
- Our voter turnout is abysmal. Unless the voter tampering is on a massive scale the greater turnout I think it is reasonable to expect from online voting will still leave us with a vote the more accurately reflects the population of America.
- Our voter turnout is age based and young people are much more comfortable doing things online. Being anti-tech, even with 100% valid and good reasons, does not do the Democrats any good. The Republicans have the "I'm an old technophobe who doesn't own a computer and thinks all problems are because kids these days just won't get off their darn cell phones" demographic locked down and there's not young "I will only vote on vinyl" demographic to balance it out. As long as voting is analog the Democrats will be every election with one hand tied behind their back. Might as well have elections based on angry letters to the editor.
- As it stands all the Republican methods of voter suppression and election tampering won't work if they can't screw with people's physical votes.
But here's the things about America specifically.
- Our voter turnout is abysmal. Unless the voter tampering is on a massive scale the greater turnout I think it is reasonable to expect from online voting will still leave us with a vote the more accurately reflects the population of America.
- Our voter turnout is age based and young people are much more comfortable doing things online. Being anti-tech, even with 100% valid and good reasons, does not do the Democrats any good. The Republicans have the "I'm an old technophobe who doesn't own a computer and thinks all problems are because kids these days just won't get off their darn cell phones" demographic locked down and there's not young "I will only vote on vinyl" demographic to balance it out. As long as voting is analog the Democrats will be every election with one hand tied behind their back. Might as well have elections based on angry letters to the editor.
- As it stands all the Republican methods of voter suppression and election tampering won't work if they can't screw with people's physical votes.
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,576
I will add one more thing. For long time I was opposed to mandatory voting, since I thought it is pointless. If someone doesn't care or does not want to vote, then forcing them to throw out ballot without vote, invalid vote or just random X somewhere will do no good.
But then, not that long ago, I realized that I was mistaken. It is not goal of mandatory voting to force people uninterested in voting to vote. With mandatory vote voting suppression is pretty much impossible. This is why there are democracies with mandatory voting.
Of course, in land of "freedom to abuse other" that won't ever fly.
But then, not that long ago, I realized that I was mistaken. It is not goal of mandatory voting to force people uninterested in voting to vote. With mandatory vote voting suppression is pretty much impossible. This is why there are democracies with mandatory voting.
Of course, in land of "freedom to abuse other" that won't ever fly.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 32,922
The most important benefit of mandatory voting is that it highlights any obstacles put in front of particular groups of voters.
If 16 year olds were eligible to vote then you could have polling places at every high school and schedule time during the day for them to vote.
There simply aren't enough 18 year olds in high school in October-November to make that worthwhile.
I think lowering the voter age to 16 would have an huge impact on young voters and their parents. Whether that is a huge impact overall is a different matter.
Last edited:
No it isn't, shut up!
/s
I'll go ahead and add the sarcasm tag as we get closer to election day.
I would love nothing more than to see voting being something that's taught as a concept in high school, complete with your first act of voting being part of your curriculum.
But I'm sure any second now some contrarian Republican/Faux-Libertarian will be along to Bob-splain to me why that would be some horrible violation of some pure pointless cause purity political principle they are going to pretend to hold dear.
I won't wait for that splaining. I just refuse to set my hopes that high anytime soon. There are other things to hope for in the immediate future that are far more likely.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 32,922
Voting is a privilege that we are born with and that you have to earn, you horrible poor person.
If you're not willing to overcome all the hurdles I've put in your way to try to dissuade you from voting then maybe you don't really deserve to vote.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 32,922
FTFY
dmaker
Graduate Poster
Saw this pop up on Twitter:
"NEW: A Cleveland company that agreed to print absentee ballots for dozens of counties in OH and PA is 10 days late in getting them to voters.
The company's owners are Trump supporters and flew a Trump flag at their HQ."
https://twitter.com/reidepstein/status/1317159055144685569
I wonder how much of this quiet, chipping away at the voting infrastructure goes unnoticed?
"NEW: A Cleveland company that agreed to print absentee ballots for dozens of counties in OH and PA is 10 days late in getting them to voters.
The company's owners are Trump supporters and flew a Trump flag at their HQ."
https://twitter.com/reidepstein/status/1317159055144685569
I wonder how much of this quiet, chipping away at the voting infrastructure goes unnoticed?
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
I think there may be a few problems with that idea:
First of all, you would need poll workers to staff the polling places (as well whatever other relevant equipment is used in that state), and its not always easy to find those.
Secondly, in some more densely populated cities, it is possible that a school that the student attends is in a different district than the student lives in.
We already use schools for polling places, so that shouldn't be a big deal. The proper district thing can be an issue in areas where you have to vote within your district. Ours is on a county basis and most school districts are within single counties, but I am willing to bet there are some exceptions to that generalization. Also, private schools pull from larger areas. So, some kids would not be able to vote at school, but if most could I think that would be a pretty big deal. That's one reason it will never happen.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2005
- Messages
- 96,955
I believe that refers to the alternative facts his people tell him because they are afraid of giving him any real facts about his being behind.
Mumbles
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 8,726
I'm sure.
Oh I know, and watched that entire nonsense as it went down. Hell, I can tell you how long I laughed at the Green Party's bungling in Wisconsin, and I live in Maryland.
(This is actually part of my overall view of prison reform - At the very least, ex-felons should be reintegrated as much as possible, and voting's one of those where there's rarely any justification to revoke the "privilege". I'm generally okay with people in jail voting, for that matter, *especially* people jailed pending trial. And that's as much as I'll say, lest it spin off-topic.)
Granted, but I still can't think of a serious objection to it, either. I've met highly responsible people of that age, and clownish people far older - but one potential advantage I can think of is that many will get into the habit of voting while physically in their high school, or at the very least not hitting their first election when in a massive life transition period - off in college, trying to enter the workforce, and so on.
Certainly - part of the reason you see those 8-12 hour lines is that, in these areas, they're *used* to this sort of crap, it's expected.
But don't think there aren't people - particularly the younger folks - that can't necessarily take the time off, and up until now early voting has also been a pain in these areas, to the point where GOP workers have actively tried to disrupt sunday "Souls to the Polls" buses, clumsy fear-based attempts like what that clumsy goon Jacob Wohl tried, and so forth. They're usually better than to be so easily traceable, though.
- Status