2020 Presidential Election

[Ron Obvious]

What private companies require to enter a private contractual relationship for services is not a proper basis for determining the baseline for voting rights or any other human right or civil liberty.

The government is not a business. It is senseless and dangerous to want it to act like one.

Why do you so excitedly embrace oppression?

Oh, sod off with the hyperbole. Virtually every western democratic society requires ID to vote.

 

[The Don]

Oh, sod off with the hyperbole. Virtually every western democratic society requires ID to vote.

I live in the exception to your rule

 

[Andy_Ross]

Oh, sod off with the hyperbole. Virtually every western democratic society requires ID to vote.

Then it's up to the government to make sure the voters can get ID.

 

[acbytesla]

So you've no idea what you're talking about, do you?!!

Ooops.
I didn't have ID either.

 

[acbytesla]

Everybody should have some form of ID. In most cases in the US that would be a driving license or state ID. You can't even open a bank account or cash a cheque in the US without ID or indeed perform a host of other basic functions in a modern society.

Mind you, the people without ID are most likely to vote Democratic which is why the Democrats are so outraged on their behalf. If they were more likely to vote Republican, the positions of the two parties would be exactly reversed.

There's very little room for principle in US politics.

Sure, everybody should have ID but you'd be surprised at how some go without it and how hard it is to get if you don't have it. If you're homeless and you attempt to get a State ID card, you will find they won't give you one without a birth certificate and you can't get a birth certificate without ID. Every way you turn you run into a Catch 22.

 

[acbytesla]

Oh, sod off with the hyperbole. Virtually every western democratic society requires ID to vote.

That's not true. And making the claim doesn't make it true.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I haven't seen the movie, but that is a legitimate concern if the numbers are close.
https://www.salon.com/2020/10/06/tr...-state-electors-no-matter-the-results-report/
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...-state-legislatures-choose-the-next-president
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/25/trump-attack-election-electors-republicans

But they have to be, not just close, but close in a half dozen states and Trump has to challenge the vote in every one of those states.

The odds of this being an issue go down when the number of states needed to be close goes up.

 

[Ron Obvious]

Then it's up to the government to make sure the voters can get ID.

Agreed. That's where the problem lies; not in the ID requirement for casting a vote.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'll just put in my usual plug here. Some of you have seen it before.

In Michigan, you have to provide an ID to vote. Pretty much any government document will do just fine. I can't remember the list, but it's easy. If you don't have that, I think they will accept utility bills. If you don't have any of those, then they give you a form that you fill out as an affidavit, so your signature is an ID.

That's it. It works. No voter fraud, or at the very least it is incredibly easy to detect fraud if it occurs. If there are suddenly lots of affidavits, then there's some shenanigans going on. No disenfranchisement of people without drivers' licenses or other ID, or who get there and discover that they left their wallet at home.

It's such a simple, common sense, system. I don't know why other states do anything else. Oh, wait. i do know why other states do anything else. They want the disenfranchisement of the "wrong" voters.

When you fill out that provisional ballot because you can't provide anything, how do they check if you are legit if you are homeless or live on an Indian reservation with no address?

And are students banned from voting if their 'permanent' residence is not in Michigan? The GOP wanted to stop those liberal students from mucking up their conservative state.

Student IDs no good but gun permits are fine? That was the issue in some states.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Rudy Giuliani Is My Father. Please, Everyone, Vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
I may not be able to change my father’s mind, but together, we can vote this toxic administration out of office.

BY CAROLINE ROSE GIULIANI

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/10/rudy-giulianis-daughter-on-voting-for-biden

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Agreed. That's where the problem lies; not in the ID requirement for casting a vote.

Until the government does provide them, making them a requirement becomes an infringement.

The one problem feeds into the other problem, yes.

That doesn't mean it somehow becomes okay.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Lindsey Graham is on Fox News yet again pleading for donations

 

[Stacyhs]

Rudy Giuliani Is My Father. Please, Everyone, Vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
I may not be able to change my father’s mind, but together, we can vote this toxic administration out of office.

BY CAROLINE ROSE GIULIANI

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/10/rudy-giulianis-daughter-on-voting-for-biden

Holidays must be fun at the Giuliani home.

 

[Mumbles]

Everybody should have some form of ID. In most cases in the US that would be a driving license or state ID. You can't even open a bank account or cash a cheque in the US without ID or indeed perform a host of other basic functions in a modern society.

I'm upper-middle class, and I haven't had to do either of the above in well over a decade -0 and I've never had to show an ID myself to open an account (I had one before I turned 18, with my mother as cosigner - went without a Driver's License or State ID for years as a college student)

And over the years, I'd say an outright majority of younger people in my neighborhood did the same. Check? Nah, they'd get cash payments. Driver's license? Nope, took public transportation.

Lots of long-retired people did this as well - even if they did drink, there wasn't a person on earth who would mistake most of them for some teenager.

Mind you, the people without ID are most likely to vote Democratic which is why the Democrats are so outraged on their behalf. If they were more likely to vote Republican, the positions of the two parties would be exactly reversed.

I have heard of exactly one case, in a small town, in GWB's presidency, of democrats target white-majority areas for voter suppression efforts, ever, despite the fact that white people have trended towards the GOP for my entire life. Seemed to have more to do with local elected officials keeping their power than anything else, and the Bush DoJ went after them using the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (as they should have)

Statewide efforts where republicans target black, Native, and Hispanic voters in particular for disenfranchisement, using shaky or illegal voter roll purges (see: True the Vote), misinformation (belligerent mailers and poll watchers), polling site closings (happened immediately after the Roberts court's wrongly-decided Shelby decision), closing ID sites in minority regions (Alabama, again right after the Roberts court gutted the CRA), gerrymandering (North Carolina rushed to do this one), and so forth, are a dime a dozen, on the other hand.

Because of this, I find your claim...questionable. It seems to have more to do with keeping nonwhite people as second-class citizens, which we've seen from at least one of the two significant political parties since the GOP became a significant political party, as it has to do with any interest in merely winning elections as an end in and of itself.

 

[Meadmaker]

There's very little room for principle in US politics.

It seems to me there's quite a lot of room for principle in US politics. No one seems to be occupying that ground.

 

[Ron Obvious]

It seems to me there's quite a lot of room for principle in US politics. No one seems to be occupying that ground.

Ha! Fair enough.

 

[Ron Obvious]

Because of this, I find your claim...questionable. It seems to have more to do with keeping nonwhite people as second-class citizens, which we've seen from at least one of the two significant political parties since the GOP became a significant political party, as it has to do with any interest in merely winning elections as an end in and of itself.

My point was that if those without ID were inclined to vote Republican, the two parties would completely switch their positions on the ID requirement. It may be hypothetical, but I do recall Republicans complaining about the Democrats blocking efforts to facilitate voting by military members abroad who would be more inclined to vote R, for example.

I'll stand by the fact that everyone should have ID to function in a modern society. If that's difficult or expensive to get, then that's where the Democrats should focus their efforts. Not in blocking the voter ID requirements.

 

[Elagabalus]

Trump Retweeted

GOP
@GOP
"Vice President Biden, you owe the people of America an apology, because it turns out you are a corrupt politician."— @realDonaldTrump in Iowa...

"Former Vice President Biden, do you agree with President Trump that you owe the people of America an apology?"
"No"
"So no apology will be forthcoming?"
"No"
"And why is that?"
"I feel like trolling Donald Trump" *shrugs*

 

[Meadmaker]

you can't get a birth certificate without ID.

In the last 20 years, I have gotten birth certificates for myself, my son, and my mother, all without producing any ID. I found that a bit odd, to tell you the truth. Mom's birth certificate even came from another country (Ireland).

However, your point is still valid. If you have no ID, it is a problem to get it.

 

[acbytesla]

In the last 20 years, I have gotten birth certificates for myself, my son, and my mother, all without producing any ID. I found that a bit odd, to tell you the truth. Mom's birth certificate even came from another country (Ireland).

However, your point is still valid. If you have no ID, it is a problem to get it.

It depends on access to other pieces of ID and it depends on where you were born. It's a lot harder than it use to be because of identity theft.