The Common Potato
Muse
Those that refuse to agree with her assertion that biological facts are irrelevant.
Cont: Trans Women are not Women 4
- Thread starter Boudicca90
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Those that refuse to agree with her assertion that biological facts are irrelevant.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
How many females need to be assaulted before you decide it's an "actual" problem?
Seven sex attacks in women’s jails by transgender convicts
Lawsuit: Female Prisoner Says She Was Raped by Transgender Inmate
8 Violent offender transferred to female prisons in Canada
Violent Male Offenders are Being Transferred to Women’s Prisons in Canada
I'd bring up Karen White again... but what would be the point? You'd simply dismiss it as an outlier, and go on pretending there's no risk to females by putting self-declared, genitally intact males into prison with them.
The Common Potato
Muse
So, you are doing it on purpose? Not very ladylike.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Would it be uncivil for, say, a homosexual man to insult someone who was espousing anti-gay bigotry?
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
How have I treated you? Have I dismissed your disadvantages and concerns as unimportant or exaggerated? Have I told you that the challenges you face are made up, or that you're overreacting about them? Have I labeled you or any other transgender person and called you names? Have I dismissed the concerns of transgender people about assault as being not a big deal, and a risk that I'm will for them to take?
I treat transgender people with dignity and respect, I use the appropriate pronouns and addresses for their preference. I have done nothing that justifies your abuse of me and your consistent dismissal and denigration of female concerns.
In what way are you included in the subset of humans referred to as female?
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
The problem here is that "TERF" is a fluid definition that ends up meaning "Any female who doesn't give me what I want".
But no problem, go ahead and keep ignoring the violence and threats made by transgender activists against females. No problem. It's not a big deal.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
That's weird. She's been making the distinction pretty consistently throughout this discussion.
To be fair, you have a vested interest in deprecating the importance of sex. And needing clarification on one of the central distinctions of the debate is just weird. Like at this point in the conversation it comes across more as trolling than as inattention.
Boudicca90
Muse
It actually illustrates a problem we face where we can't show any hint of aggression or else we will be called a "man".
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
He's a transphobe, but not a TERF, there's a difference. They aren't synonyms, as much as they are trying to make them seem like they are.
I put it like this: All TERFs are transphobes, but not all transphobes are TERFs. When I'm talking about TERFs I refer to Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism, which is a specific ideology.
And it was pretty clear he was trying to bait me, that's why I was avoiding taking the bait.
I'm not a radical feminist. I'm not trans-exclusionary, I'm male-exclusionary on a particular set of things. I'm not at all transphobic.
But it certainly is a convenient label for you to use that justifies your insults and denigration.
Devaluing biological sex while upvaluing (that needs to be a word) "gender identities" just don't make sense to me.
If someone agrees that our biological differences are over-valued, what possible purposes is there in such a fascination with how we identify?
If someone agrees that our biological differences are over-valued, what possible purposes is there in such a fascination with how we identify?
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Oh wow. Okay. Did not see that approach coming. So now, not only are the fears and concerns that females face, the astonishing level of sexual assaults and harassment and domestic violence faced by females, the voyeurism and the up-skirt shots posted on the internet and the peeping toms of the world, the social biases that females place that put them at a measurable disadvantage in their careers and in politics... Not only are all of those things hysterical exaggerations or completely made up... they're a ruse foisted upon females by males.
Just... wow.
Joe Random
Illuminator
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Where or where would women be if there weren't men around to tell them what it feels like to be a woman, what things are important to women, what to be afraid of, etc?
On behalf of males everywhere I guess I'll just say : you're welcome, ladies.
On behalf of males everywhere I guess I'll just say : you're welcome, ladies.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
This seems disingenuous. I've been extremely consistent in using the term "female" to refer to actual human females of the species rather than the now-meaningless term "women" throughout this entire thread. There should be no confusion. There is no possible way that a good-faith interaction would lead anyone to believe that I was just casually dropping in the term for livestock to refer to people in this thread.
Baloney. YOU don't think sex is important, but many many females DO think that sex is important. Because it is not on the basis of clothing and nail polish that females have been discriminated against and oppressed through history. It is on the basis of our sex - our biological sex! That is why SEX is a protected characteristic that you and other transgender activists are trying to remove and subvert!
Would you please, pretty please with cherries on top, stop dismissing the actual real issues of actual real females because they're not important to you?
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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So that first link says that of the 124 sex attacks carried out against women in women's prisons in England in 2010-2018, 7 were carried out by transgender inmates. And incidentally, that 7 number included not only trans women inmates, but also female inmates who were in the early stages of transitioning to men (but the breakdown between those two different categories is not seemingly provided).
So.....
124 sex attacks in women's prisons.
7 of which were carried out by transgender prisoners (either trans women or early-stage trans men).
What the figures do not appear to show are two rather important factors:
1) Of those seven reported sex attacks by transgender prisoners, how many were carried out by trans women (as opposed to early-stage trans men)?
2) Of those seven reported sex attacks by transgender prisoners, how many were carried out against other transgender prisoners.
Without knowing the answers to those two questions, we cannot even get a true figure for the number of sex attacks by trans women prisoners on cis women prisoners.
But even if we assume for the moment that all seven sex attacks were carried out by trans women prisoners on cis women prisoners...
...that's seven out of one hundred and twenty four sex attacks.
Yes, it would be noteworthy if trans women prisoners were statistically more likely than cis women prisoners to carry out sex attacks upon cis women prisoners, but women prisoners are still far, far more likely to be sexually attacked by cis women prisoners. And (for example) it's very probably also true that male prisoners with substance abuse problems are statistically more likely than male prisoners without substance abuse problems to carry out physical assaults upon male prisoners. But that doesn't provide a blanket justification for exclusing males with substance abuse problems from male prisons.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Thank you oh gracious and masterful man! Your magnanimity in making sure we poor, witless females are cared for by those who know what's best for us is very much appreciated!
*Tee hee* Math is hard!
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Where o where were all the highly educated, highly experienced and highly expert women within those professions whose very job in society is to be the ones who best understand human medicine, health, physiology and mental health?
Where o where were those women when their professions collaboratively declared that gender dysphoria is a real, valid condition - and not a mental disorder (or the product of a disorder)?
Where o where were those women when their professions decided that as a direct consequence of the recognition of gender dysphoria, trans men should be treated as men, and trans women should be treated as women?
Where o where were those women when (inevitably) discussions took place about potential implications and outcomes - including trans women in women's changing rooms and trans women in women's prisons?
Where o where were all those highly educated, highly experienced and highly expert women within these professions, at the points when their opinions would have been heard and considered?
Oh. Wait.
Ziggurat
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It's a really peculiar conspiracy theory. Instead of a small subset of bad men posing a real threat to women, men in general have brainwashed women into believing in a nonexistent threat.
Why didn't I get the memo so I could do my part?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
One reason that males are better at being women is that without a uterus they aren't susceptible to hysteria. Also, they are congenitally resistant to the brainwashing of the patriarchy.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Boudicca90
Muse
I am an actual real human female! You can reduce me down to stereotypes all you want to, dehumanize me so I'm not a part of your exclusive club.
Gender is about far more than biology. I may not have all the same biological functions you do, but society treats me the same as you, or at least should. Both positively and negatively.
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