Ed Indictment in Breonna Taylor case.

[Sherkeu]

So the additional details are that a criminal made a claim for which no evidence was found to corroborate?

Wow, great scoop.



By the way, if you heard that Breonna Taylor was getting “drug packages” mailed to her house, you’ve been lied to. And the people lying to you are the police.

They do have photos of that old boyfriend getting packages at her home. He stopped there many times, usually just a short visit, like some of the other places. Postal inspector corroborated. This signifies drug or money drops usually.
Brionna herself said she was worried when he came over that she was in danger. It made her anxious because his 'movements were messy'.
These men USED these women to hide their illegal activities.

Did you read the report and see the photos? they had some stake out photos and also some from 'pole cameras'
Go read about it. It is out there.

 

[Minoosh]

Whole bunch of details showing Breonna's involvement in the drug trade here.



By the way, if you've heard that the cops went to the wrong house, you've been lied to. The search warrant was for Breonna's address and mentioned her name specifically.

Done up posthumously in a grand effort to justify an obviously botched raid. A mishmash of talking points, some misleading, others hyped up to make her look bad. Based on a few underwhelming and largely tangential connections that do show she was involved with Grover but not a whole lot else. The one about the body in the car rented by Breonna is being thrown around for the innuendo value, but pretty clearly she was not involved with the death. I haven't seen anyone claim on this thread that cops were at the wrong house. At least one poster thought she was asleep in bed but that's not true.

Grover himself was considered such a badass he was released on $1,000 bond when arrested the same night as Breonna.

I don't blame LMPD for compiling that list. It was an effort at damage control - obviously not very effective. What bothers me is the way it's being used against her on certain corners of the Internet. I absolutely do not believe that citing that list makes you a white supremacists. But white supremacists are using it just to throw out bits of snark amid some rather darker insinuations. A poster on this thread sadistically "jokes" about his snuff fantasy of police pumping her body full of bullets, then reloading if she's still twitching.

So yeah, it's a list. She had a BF who was a petty criminal. She did some favors for him she probably shouldn't have. Nothing in it changes the fact that this raid was handled badly. She was not doing anything wrong when she was pumped full of bullets in sustained fire. Cops after the fact compiled a list to imply she was up to her eyeballs in the drug trade. It's basically "but what about Breonna's mistakes?" All pretty chicken**** IMO.

 

[shuttlt]

Let's just note that there is an enormous gulf between "armed" and "potentially armed." Some of the most notorious police killings have been the result of cops presuming that somebody might be armed when he wasn't.

Sure. Some of those cases were justified. Some of them weren't.

I think fair-minded people recognize that cops have a right to defend themselves.

RolandRat seemed to be disputing that in the case that possible couldn't rule out the possibility that bystanders might get hit.

But only against an immediate, imminent, certain deadly threat, not against somebody reaching into a pocket or opening a glove compartment.

So it's like some kind of honourable wild west, where they slowly go for their gun but you can't fire until they draw? In the time it takes for somebody to pull something out of their pocket and for you to tell whether it is a gun or their wallet, if it is a gun they have shot you.

If that means the cop has to wait a beat to see what comes out of the pocket or the glove compartment, that's a risk he's paid to take.

No it isn't. You know it isn't. You might think it should be, but one of the main things your side is moaning about is that the law currently allows police to shoot you based on a reasonable belief.

In this case the cops might have had a right to defend themselves against somebody shooting at them. But they still had an obligation to identify their target.

I am not sure that that is true. Could you cite the law (or whatever) you are getting this from?

 

[Minoosh]

They do have photos of that old boyfriend getting packages at her home. He stopped there many times, usually just a short visit, like some of the other places. Postal inspector corroborated. This signifies drug or money drops usually.
Brionna herself said she was worried when he came over that she was in danger. It made her anxious because his 'movements were messy'.
These men USED these women to hide their illegal activities.

Did you read the report and see the photos? they had some stake out photos and also some from 'pole cameras'
Go read about it. It is out there.

re highlight: No they didn't.

Camera snaps of her car at one of his locations. He visits her apartment. Pretty weak evidence IMO. I keep coming back to Grover's $1K bail. Also the new place-based policing sounds fishy on its own. Some of this may have been an effort to clear the neighborhood for redevelopment.

But even if she were up to her eyeballs in the drug trade - which isn't what LMPD actually believes, IMO - it was a stupid raid endangering innocents for a marginal case, and the connections detailed after her death are being tossed around by white supremacists to claim she deserved to be shot.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Which is why I always spend these discussion not letting the "And therefore the black person deserved to be murdered" just being this unsaid subtext and making sure the racists have to say it directly.

But nobody is saying that, not even me.

What is being said is more like this:

"and therefore, this person was living the kind of life where they were a criminal and surrounding themselves with other criminals, and when leading that kind of life - the way their life ended is not entirely unforseeable and is the kind of fate that sometimes does befall the criminally inclined. This may not mean they 'deserved it' in some karmic sense, but it does mean that their fate was tied to their choices and that they probably aren't a great candidate for martyrhood / sainthood as they're being presented."

If we're going to be burning down the country over someone, I insist they not be a POS. Is that so much to ask?

 

[Planigale]

That's the obvious conclusion. If you take the position that the cops opening fire was lawful, then the system that lead to such a pointless killing is at fault.

We have a raid that resulted in a dead unarmed woman and a cop shot and the legal conclusion is that nobody, not cops or the guy that shot at them, committed a crime. 1 dead and 1 wounded and the only indictment is incidental because some cop went rambo and sprayed the whole building with gunfire like a moron.

What's maddening is that this horrible screwup has been decided as a natural consequence of the policies in place, but nothing is being done to change the policies to prevent such a disaster.

12 million paid out for a wrongful death and the city has no interest in preventing it from happening again.

Breonna Taylor wasn't some cocaine cowboy that never set foot outside of her fortified crack house. These people easily could have been apprehended during daylight hours to execute a search warrant.
If surprise is absolutely necessary, just snag her while checking the mail or at the grocery store, not by kicking in the door in the wee hours

A raid never should have been approved. The police culture and war on drugs have totally lost all sense of proportionality, and the deaths will continue until that is changed.

That is why there needs to be command responsibility, if the sheriff was in the dock or the chief of police facing a charge of corporate negligent homicide because there were not policies in place to police safely you would see change.

 

[Minoosh]

"Both sides" of course use talking points and it's not unusual for "both sides" to insert little embellishments that are sometimes inaccurate. But there's no equivalency here. LMPD screwed up here. They know it. Some of the rounds shot were justified. Not all of them.

Also: Cops holding fire if at all possible is not some radical idea promoted by idealistic peacenicks. It happens all the time because yes, damnit, stray bullets are absolutely a thing! And police departments know that. Getting all pumped up breaking doors down is IMO often a bad idea. Justifiable? Maybe. Smart policing? I don't know, I'd have to research how effective they are vs. alternative tactics.

 

[Sherkeu]

re highlight: No they didn't.

Camera snaps of her car at one of his locations. He visits her apartment. Pretty weak evidence IMO. I keep coming back to Grover's $1K bail. Also the new place-based policing sounds fishy on its own. Some of this may have been an effort to clear the neighborhood for redevelopment.

But even if she were up to her eyeballs in the drug trade - which isn't what LMPD actually believes, IMO - it was a stupid raid endangering innocents for a marginal case, and the connections detailed after her death are being tossed around by white supremacists to claim she deserved to be shot.

Well, she certainly DID NOT deserve to be shot but the circumstances she was in even gave her pause. She was worried. Probably not for her life though. Who could have imagined such a thing happening when you are sleeping in your own home? The cops do not like things to turn out this way either, you know. No one likes it. It is terrible.

I did note that another house he went to ...who he called the 'baby momma' Keisha, was not put on the list to be raided. They knew there was a child in that home.

Raiding a potential drug=affiliated place at night when a gun-toting criminal may be on the other side of the door seems reckless in any case.

also...Where do you go to get the opinion of the 'White Supremecists"? Do they post a lot on social media about it? I do not partake in any of those sites. I do use youtube though. I'm glad I dont get to hear the fringes ranting daily so second hand info is ok by me.

 

[Bob001]

.....
No it isn't. You know it isn't. You might think it should be, but one of the main things your side is moaning about is that the law currently allows police to shoot you based on a reasonable belief.

I am not sure that that is true. Could you cite the law (or whatever) you are getting this from?

Yeah, you know I can't. We all know that it's de facto legal for cops to kill pretty much anybody anytime anyplace if they just claim they're scared, even if they shouldn't be, and even if it wouldn't be grounds for a civilian to open fire. But that's life in a banana republic, not a civilized society. Cops in other countries enforce the laws and maintain lower crime rates without killing people they don't have to.

 

[Minoosh]

also...Where do you go to get the opinion of the 'White Supremecists"? Do they post a lot on social media about it? I do not partake in any of those sites. I do use youtube though. I'm glad I dont get to hear the fringes ranting daily so second hand info is ok by me.

I spent more time than I probably should have on VDARE. The articles I read had a thin veneer of avoiding obvious racism but the comments didn't. Also someone here kept bringing up the "body in the car" without explaining anything about it, and initial search results showed similar comments - people dropping it in as a talking point without explaining it, and using it to riff on some populations being naturally prone to more criminality. Finally I found the news stories detailing the car incident and her connection to it was peripheral. It kept getting tossed around without explanation amid comments that this stuff tended to happen in certain segments of society.

 

[shuttlt]

Raiding a potential drug=affiliated place at night when a gun-toting criminal may be on the other side of the door seems reckless in any case.

The way it was explained to me, that is exactly the circumstances in which you do do a no knock raid. But you do it fast and hard so you are in control of the situation before anybody inside knows which way is up. If you are going to knock, typically you would wait until morning when there is light and hopefully people have clear heads. The thing that was odd according to the former cop I saw talk about this was that they do kind of a mixture of a knock and a no-knock raid.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I spent more time than I probably should have on VDARE. The articles I read had a thin veneer of avoiding obvious racism but the comments didn't. Also someone here kept bringing up the "body in the car" without explaining anything about it, and initial search results showed similar comments - people dropping it in as a talking point without explaining it, and using it to riff on some populations being naturally prone to more criminality. Finally I found the news stories detailing the car incident and her connection to it was peripheral. It kept getting tossed around without explanation amid comments that this stuff tended to happen in certain segments of society.

AKA she told the police she rented the car but had no idea how it ended up with that dead drug dealer in it.

Okay, ever hear of people downplaying their role in criminality when questioned by cops?

Them not being able to prove she knew the car was going to be used for a drug deal does not mean she didn't know.

If this was some shady looking white guy in L.A. Noire or something you'd probably be enjoying watching the hard nosed detective respond to him with "sure, sure... you had no idea the car YOU rented would be used for a drug deal. Listen here bub, I wasn't born yesterday!"

etc.

But because it's an already media-sainted black woman, you'll just buy it hook line and sinker.

 

[shuttlt]

Yeah, you know I can't.

This is the problem. You talk about cops having obligations that they take on when they take the job, but they don't as you seem to be accepting here. These are just obligations that you think cops should have, but currently don't.

We all know that it's de facto legal for cops to kill pretty much anybody anytime anyplace if they just claim they're scared, even if they shouldn't be, and even if it wouldn't be grounds for a civilian to open fire.

That is clearly not true.

But that's life in a banana republic, not a civilized society. Cops in other countries enforce the laws and maintain lower crime rates without killing people they don't have to.

I thought it was the accepted view on the forum that the crime rate was due to social problems, the USA being founded on racism, the War on Drugs etc etc etc. All of that seems to be operating at a policy level above the police. Are you sure you don't have the cause and effect the wrong way around? Maybe the cops in what ever countries you are referring to police differently because the level of violent criminality in the population they police is lower?

 

[Olmstead]

I think the whole purpose of no-knock warrants should be questioned. Is it to prevent evidence being destroyed? When? In the minute it would take to inform occupants that they need to comply or the police will be forced to break down their door? What are they going to do? Flush drugs down the toilet and bleach the place?

Are no-knock warrants really the result of people destroying evidence or are they the result of the police failing to find evidence that was never there to be found? They found nothing here. If this had been a regular search warrant, would they have simply chalked it up to evidence having been destroyed?

I think that no-knock warrants are a tool meant to terrorise. I don't believe they have an investigative benefit that outweighs the risks.

 

[Sherkeu]

The way it was explained to me, that is exactly the circumstances in which you do do a no knock raid. But you do it fast and hard so you are in control of the situation before anybody inside knows which way is up. If you are going to knock, typically you would wait until morning when there is light and hopefully people have clear heads. The thing that was odd according to the former cop I saw talk about this was that they do kind of a mixture of a knock and a no-knock raid.

It likely would have been better if they had NOT knocked. It seems to me the other raids at the same time produced the other suspects so I'll guess they thought Breonna was there alone...so they knocked and gave her warning. She was not known to be dangerous at all...just a pawn used by the other guys.
But that courtesy did not turn out well.
Either do one or the other. Barge in at night, or knock in the day.
The mix of strategies is not good.

 

[Shadowdweller]

The way it was explained to me, that is exactly the circumstances in which you do do a no knock raid. But you do it fast and hard so you are in control of the situation before anybody inside knows which way is up. If you are going to knock, typically you would wait until morning when there is light and hopefully people have clear heads. The thing that was odd according to the former cop I saw talk about this was that they do kind of a mixture of a knock and a no-knock raid.

In a state like Kentucky where there are stand your ground laws that explicitly allow shoot first at night when someone breaks down your door, and more than half (54%) of households possess guns - that would seem the most utterly imbecilic protocol imaginable. And oh look, it was.

 

[Brainster]

So the additional details are that a criminal made a claim for which no evidence was found to corroborate?

Wow, great scoop.



By the way, if you heard that Breonna Taylor was getting “drug packages” mailed to her house, you’ve been lied to. And the people lying to you are the police.

If you have evidence on that score, please feel free to present it. It is predictable, however, that you are not interested in talking about the lie that we have heard repeated ad nauseum that the cops had the wrong address. It is quite clear that they had a warrant for Breona's address and that there was no mistake.

And this bit about "and therefore she deserved to die" is just crap. I would like to know why I was lied to repeatedly about the cops going to her address by mistake. It's a pretty important point. Then we could get to the fact that she was not in bed when she was shot (another common claim that turned out to be false). Her lawyer apologized for saying that she had not been involved romantically with the dealer for two years; turned out there were some texts that contradicted him.

So what appeared to be an open and shut case of cops murdering a black woman turns out not to be quite that open and shut. But the Breonna Truthers of course didn't start from the evidence, so the fact that a lot of their claims turned out to be false doesn't matter. They knew the cops were guilty the moment Breonna's race was revealed.

 

[Minoosh]

But because it's an already media-sainted black woman, you'll just buy it hook line and sinker.

No, it's because the matter was resolved 4 years ago to LMPD's satisfaction.

Also, you don't know jack about my motives for concluding that she was not involved in that killing.

This car thing is part of a posthumous list police cobbled together to make her look bad. Someone asked why I think white supremacists are using this as part of a smear campaign and here you are, implying she must be guilty of more than renting a car for someone else's use. The cops don't even think that.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Even if every single lie told about Breonna Taylor in this thread and the media were true, even if every single unverified variable is stacked against her, she should still be alive.

The whole "Oh I'll care about police violence as soon as you give me a 'pure' victim to worry about" thing is obvious for what it is.

 

[johnny karate]

They do have photos of that old boyfriend getting packages at her home. He stopped there many times, usually just a short visit, like some of the other places. Postal inspector corroborated. This signifies drug or money drops usually.
Brionna herself said she was worried when he came over that she was in danger. It made her anxious because his 'movements were messy'.
These men USED these women to hide their illegal activities.

Did you read the report and see the photos? they had some stake out photos and also some from 'pole cameras'
Go read about it. It is out there.

It would be better if it was in here.

Please proved links to corroborate your claims.

Meanwhile, I’ll leave this here for you:
Louisville postal inspector: No ‘packages of interest’ at slain EMT Breonna Taylor’s home.