Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

[TurkeysGhost]

Ignoring the hyperbole of your example, it seems disingenuous to short change the abilities of these people to find victims. Sorry, but if the limiting factor of a guy driving hours in his car, bringing a gun to confront/kill someone in their home is an Andy Ngo post of the publicly available information, that post is not the issue. If these people can find your home address, where you work and form groups to harass you, they can damn well find the info that he does.

"Make it harder for them" should not but something that they can overcome by using google for 5 minutes more.

It's not Andy Ngo investigative skill sending these nuts to people's doorstep, it's his reputation as a leader in the anti-antifa (or just fa, if you will) community. His list is essentially his blessing that these people deserve to be victims of crime.

Andy Ngo designates the target, with plausible deniability, and the sea of faceless, nameless criminals do the rest.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I don't know if this is going to broaden the discussion too much and if it does we can ask for a threadspin off and I won't get offended.

The whole "Well it's public information, all I'm doing it putting it all in one place LOL my hands are clean not my fault if anything happens" doesn't sit well with me.

It's like if I I'm a well known anti-Left Hander and I start a website that just lists (using all hypothetically "publically available") info that correlates to the homes of Left Handers, the hours they are home, and the location of the nearest gravel quarry where you could hide and body and expect nobody to notice or make any assumptions.

If Person A who is well known, well established, and admitted Anti-Group-B starts making a list about Group B... we can fill in the blanks here people.

Just like how the Army of God types were absolutely shocked when some gunman killed Dr. Tiller, the famous abortion doctor. Sure, they circulated a flyer that called him a mass murderer of babies, listed his home and work address, included a picture, and had WANTED written across the top, but they were by no means inciting violence

https://imgur.com/r/PropagandaPosters/ly5Xegb

Ngo had no idea that one of his lunatic fascist followers would go do this, I'm sure of it. /s

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm fine with doxxing lawbreakers. Which is what Ngo is doing.

What crimes where they convicted of?

 

[Andy_Ross]

What crimes where they convicted of?

We can sort that out later.

 

[Puppycow]

It won't be, because antifa is not a thing.

FBI Director Wray: 'Antifa is a real thing,' FBI has cases against people identifying with movement

"Antifa is a real thing. It's not a group or an organization. It's a movement, or an ideology may be one way of thinking of it," Wray said. "And we have quite a number -- and I've said this quite consistently since my first time appearing before this committee -- we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists and some of those individuals self-identify with Antifa."

 

[Elagabalus]

FBI Director Wray: 'Antifa is a real thing,' FBI has cases against people identifying with movement

He also said:

Antifa is a real thing. It's not a group or an organization.It's a movement, or an ideology may be one way of thinking of it," Wray said. "And we have quite a number -- and I've said this quite consistently since my first time appearing before this committee -- we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists and some of those individuals self-identify with Antifa."

 

[rdwight]

He also said:

Am I missing the sarcasm? I understand the premise, just trying to stay here with you. And yea.. going to need some numbers in relation to these things. We have cases means jack all. A smaller percentage of said cases revolve around X. Even less jack all. Politics, optics etc. I am admittingly no fan of antifa, but this is more substance lacking bs. The boogey man can't be both poised to destroy America and living in their mom's basement.

 

[dann]

It won't be, because antifa is not a thing an organisation.

FBI Director Wray: 'Antifa is a real thing,' FBI has cases against people identifying with movement

"Antifa is a real thing. It's not a group or an organization. It's a movement, or an ideology may be one way of thinking of it," Wray said. "And we have quite a number -- and I've said this quite consistently since my first time appearing before this committee -- we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists and some of those individuals self-identify with Antifa."

FTFY.

It’s an ideology, not an organization, said Christopher Wray, while telling Congress something else Trump won’t want to hear: Violent white supremacists are a domestic terrorist threat.The FBI Director Just Blew Up Team Trump's Anti-Antifa War Plan (VanityFair, Sep. , 2020)

But there's one problem with Christopher Wray's attempt to define Antifa. It isn't even an ideology. It's anyone who doesn't like Fascism for whatever reason and tries to do something (!) about it.
The Daily Show (Sep. 1, 2017):
Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Antagonists of the Alt-Right

Antifa is the rejection of a particular political ideology, Fascism, which is nowadays mostly incorporated by White Supremacists.
Antifa is no more an ideology than atheism is a religion.
A Brief History of Anti-Fascism (Smithsonian Mag, June 24, 2020)

 

[Elagabalus]

Am I missing the sarcasm? I understand the premise, just trying to stay here with you. And yea.. going to need some numbers in relation to these things. We have cases means jack all. A smaller percentage of said cases revolve around X. Even less jack all. Politics, optics etc. I am admittingly no fan of antifa, but this is more substance lacking bs. The boogey man can't be both poised to destroy America and living in their mom's basement.

Yes.

 

[Puppycow]

FTFY.




But there's one problem with Christopher Wray's attempt to define Antifa. It isn't even an ideology. It's anyone who doesn't like Fascism for whatever reason and tries to do something (!) about it.
The Daily Show (Sep. 1, 2017):
Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Antagonists of the Alt-Right

Antifa is the rejection of a particular political ideology, Fascism, which is nowadays mostly incorporated by White Supremacists.
Antifa is no more an ideology than atheism is a religion.
A Brief History of Anti-Fascism (Smithsonian Mag, June 24, 2020)

As well as being opposed to Fascism, aren't they also opposed to Capitalism?
And in favor of anarchism and communism?

Both the name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German Antifa movement.[26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

See the image of the Antifa sticker on the traffic sign which says "Abolish Capitalism" (as well as "Smash Fascism").

So it seems to me that opposition to fascism isn't the only thing they stand for.

 

[uke2se]

As well as being opposed to Fascism, aren't they also opposed to Capitalism?
And in favor of anarchism and communism?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

See the image of the Antifa sticker on the traffic sign which says "Abolish Capitalism" (as well as "Smash Fascism").

So it seems to me that opposition to fascism isn't the only thing they stand for.

It's entirely individual. There's no real "they". It's like asking "aren't atheists also humanists"? Some are, but there's no ideological test for Antifa, except that you are against fascism.

 

[caveman1917]

As well as being opposed to Fascism, aren't they also opposed to Capitalism?
And in favor of anarchism and communism?

These things go together. Fascism is just the form capitalism takes when the privileges of the ruling class are threatened to the extent that the normal functioning of the liberal-democrat superstructure becomes insufficient. As for most anti-fascists being leftists, that follows naturally from leftists being the target of fascists given their social role in defending the economic privileges of the capitalist ruling class, for example the use of extralegal paramilitary groups to attack trade unions, leftist meetings, etc.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Woman seen pepper spraying a protester that was attacked and beat in head with a bat at a Salem, OR protest has been arrested and charged with assault. She was captured on video committing the attack and it has widely been shared by the right to brag about the violence done against peaceful protesters, including by Magen herself.

A good sign that maybe the cops are starting to take right wing violence seriously, but this is notably not the PPB which has a history of extreme permissiveness of right wing violence. Perhaps this other department isn't as cuddly with fascists as Portland cops tend to be. Magen is coincidentally in a relationship with Alan Swinney, the Proud Boy also captured on several videos committing various assaults, including brandishing a firearm, without legal consequence.

https://twitter.com/aBoonOraBane/status/1306831590140469248

 

[shuttlt]

These things go together. Fascism is just the form capitalism takes when the privileges of the ruling class are threatened to the extent that the normal functioning of the liberal-democrat superstructure becomes insufficient. As for most anti-fascists being leftists, that follows naturally from leftists being the target of fascists given their social role in defending the economic privileges of the capitalist ruling class, for example the use of extralegal paramilitary groups to attack trade unions, leftist meetings, etc.

That analysis sounds like it is coming from a somewhat Marxist perspective on history and capitalism.

 

[caveman1917]

That analysis sounds like it is coming from a somewhat Marxist perspective on history and capitalism.

To be more precise, that analysis comes from comparing the possible perspectives on the history of fascism and capitalism, and finding the somewhat Marxist one to be the most accurate and explanatory.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Radical notion but a way of stopping police violence that doesn't require America to stop loving money is probably more practical in the short to mid term.

The practical answer to every social problem isn't "Progressive socialist uprising."

 

[Suddenly]

Radical notion but a way of stopping police violence that doesn't require America to stop loving money is probably more practical in the short to mid term.

The practical answer to every social problem isn't "Progressive socialist uprising."

It isn't so much a marxist uprising that is needed as much as an understanding that the marxist view is probably the most accurate analysis and making reforms with that in mind. "Just quit that" reforms usually are totally pointless.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Again if you want to tell the ghost of Breonna Taylor we'll get her justice... right after we get around to convincing America that making money is stupid and sucks and why would you want to do that, knock yourself out.

 

[caveman1917]

Radical notion but a way of stopping police violence that doesn't require America to stop loving money is probably more practical in the short to mid term.

The practical answer to every social problem isn't "Progressive socialist uprising."

Actually it is, in a way. "If we don't give them reform they'll give us revolution" works much better than "If we don't give them reform they'll vote even harder." What you need is a general strike (a wildcat one preferably) that takes down a government. Not necessarily because of a socialist revolution, but simply because the next government won't walk all over you because you never respond anyway. At least, this happens fairly regularly here in Europe, and while our cops are also bad they're not at the level of US police just running around shooting random people. These two things, lack of general strikes taking down governments and governments running amok against their own people, are probably related.

 

[Suddenly]

Again if you want to tell the ghost of Breonna Taylor we'll get her justice... right after we get around to convincing America that making money is stupid and sucks and why would you want to do that, knock yourself out.

The idea that marxism = "making money is stupid" is a huge part of why America is a mess.