Cont: Trans Women are not Women 3

[Rolfe]

It's "literal violence". Interpret the statistics on self-reported victimhood in this context.

 

[LondonJohn]

No. You provided links to some scientists claiming various things (which they may have believed before) on the basis of various fairly thin studies. It was not "plenty of evidence".

On what basis do you think that the WHO reclassified gender dysphoria as an authentic condition and not the product of a mental disorder?

 

[LondonJohn]

Whilst I agree misgendering someone could probably be extremely insulting and hurt trans people's feelings I personally think she is a bit of a push to call it an assault.

No, no. That's not what Zooterkin was saying at all.

He said (my bolding): "Misgendering could certainly be part of an assault, and an indication that the victim's trans status was the motivating factor".

In other words, an assault could be motivated, at least in part, by misgendering.

For example: two young men punch and kick a trans woman after first confronting her saying "you're going to get what's coming to you - you're a man pretending to be a woman".

 

[cullennz]

No, no. That's not what Zooterkin was saying at all.



He said (my bolding): "Misgendering could certainly be part of an assault, and an indication that the victim's trans status was the motivating factor".



In other words, an assault could be motivated, at least in part, by misgendering.



For example: two young men punch and kick a trans woman after first confronting her saying "you're going to get what's coming to you - you're a man pretending to be a woman".

Sorry mate but I find even this kind of pushing it a bit.

Does this mean calling some a prick or an ******** during the same scenario the same?

 

[d4m10n]

On what basis do you think that the WHO reclassified gender dysphoria as an authentic condition and not the product of a mental disorder?

Mental disorders are authentic conditions as well. An inauthentic condition would be something like hysteria or drapetomania.

 

[cullennz]

Mental disorders are authentic conditions as well. An inauthentic condition would be something like hysteria or drapetomania.

Or body dysphoria.

Might be a link some where

 

[d4m10n]

Or body dysphoria.

What makes you say that's not authentic?

 

[cullennz]

What makes you say that's not authentic?

Apologies. It is.

Yet body dysphoria is counted as a disorder and gender dysphoria now isn't?

Sorry. Made a hash of my point.

 

[LondonJohn]

Sorry mate but I find even this kind of pushing it a bit.

Does this mean calling some a prick or an ******** during the same scenario the same?

No (subject to me not actually being able to know what the word that's been autocensored is)

 

[cullennz]

Just don't see much difference between some bloke who thinks they don't look manly enough with body dysphoria; which is a disorder and some bloke who thinks they should look more feminine.

But the gender one got changed from a disorder.

 

[LondonJohn]

Mental disorders are authentic conditions as well. An inauthentic condition would be something like hysteria or drapetomania.

Mental disorders are authentic conditions. But the products of mental disorders are not.

So, someone might have a delusional disorder (authentic condition).

But if that delusional disorder resulted in them believing they were King Henry VIII, then this belief that they were Henry VIII - as the product of that delusional disorder - would not be authentic.

 

[Earthborn]

Yet body dysphoria is counted as a disorder and gender dysphoria now isn't?

Both are classified as disorders (but not delusions). What is no longer classified as a disorder is having a transgender identity.

 

[Olmstead]

On what basis do you think that the WHO reclassified gender dysphoria as an authentic condition and not the product of a mental disorder?

On the basis that it is not something to be "healed" due to the (probably accurate) belief that people with gender dysphoria will be better off if they are somewhat indulged.

You could do the same with a number of other mental disorders, though it is usually not very practical.

 

[Rolfe]

Actually it was policy capture. The trans lobby whined to the WHO that having their condition labelled as a mental illness was "stigmatising", and the WHO obligingly changed the categorisation.

That left trans people in the USA in something of a bind because they needed it to stay as a medical condition in order for it to be covered by health insurance. So the insurers obligingly reclassified these treatments under "sexual health".

Amazing what can be achieved if the groundwork is properly laid by powerful vested interests.

 

[LondonJohn]

There's no arguing with that...

 

[Earthborn]

Actually it was policy capture. The trans lobby whined to the WHO that having their condition labelled as a mental illness was "stigmatising", and the WHO obligingly changed the categorisation.

WHO probably just copied the reclassification by the DSM5, which was the result of many years of intense debate among mental health professionals.

That left trans people in the USA in something of a bind because they needed it to stay as a medical condition in order for it to be covered by health insurance. So the insurers obligingly reclassified these treatments under "sexual health".

AFAIK very few health insurance companies in the USA cover transgender care, classifying it as "elective". Employee health plans in transgender friendly companies such as Google, Pixar and Apple do however.

Amazing what can be achieved if the groundwork is properly laid by powerful vested interests.

Resistance to the all powerful trans lobby is futile.

 

[JihadJane]

WHO probably just copied the reclassification by the DSM5, which was the result of many years of intense debate among mental health professionals.

Health professionals also claim, presumably after many years of intense debate, that depression is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

 

[dann]

Public service Danish TV program for children. Recommended for ages 9 to 14, but in principle down to as young as 7:

Kan man være kvinde, hvis man er født med en tissemand? Hvad er den 'rigtige' kropsstørrelse? Og hvordan er det lige, det fungerer, når det kommer til at have hår under armene eller mellem benene?
Den slags emner kan børn ned til syv år få svar på i DR-programmet 'Ultra smider tøjet', som sendes på DR Ultra.
I et af afsnittene sidder en skoleklasse for eksempel ret foran fem fuldvoksne mænd, som smider tøjet, så skoleeleverne kan nærstudere deres kroppe og stille spørgsmål, mens klassen i et andet afsnit debatterer, hvorvidt der er flere køn end mand, kvinde og intetkøn.
Men det er helt forkert og alt for ekstremt, mener Dansk Folkepartis gruppeformand, Peter Skaarup, der har udtrykt sin kritik i et opslag på Facebook.
Peter Skaarup langer ud efter børneprogram på DR: 'Det fordærver vores børn' (BT, Sep. 7, 2020)

Can you be a woman if you are born with a penis? What is the 'right's body size? And how does it work when it comes to having hair in your armpits and between your legs?
Children as young as seven can get these kinds of questions answered in the DR program 'Ultra undresses', a DR Ultra TV show.
In one episode, for instance, a school class is sitting in front of five grown-up men who undress so the students can study their bodies up close and ask questions while the class in a different episode debates if there are more sexes than man, woman and neuter.
But that is wrong and too extreme, thinks Peter Skaarup, chairman of the parliamentary group of the Danish People's Party, who has posted his criticism on Facebook.
Peter Skaarup criticizes a children's TV show on DR: 'It corrupts our children.'

Remember that the local zoo also lets children (accompanied by parents) watch giraffes being dissected and fed to the lions.
I don't know if Ultra Undresses can be accessed online outside of Denmark.

 

[d4m10n]

On the basis that it is not something to be "healed" due to the (probably accurate) belief that people with gender dysphoria will be better off if they are somewhat indulged.

There are at least two ways, in theory, to treat dysphoria. One way would be to help patients to accept their bodies as they are (e.g. using CBT); another way would be to help patients modify their bodies to more closely align with their sense of self (e.g. HRT). I've been told that one ought only affirm one of these two treatment modalities, however.

 

[Olmstead]

There are at least two ways, in theory, to treat dysphoria. One way would be to help patients to accept their bodies as they are (e.g. using CBT); another way would be to help patients modify their bodies to more closely align with their sense of self (e.g. HRT). I've been told that one ought only affirm one of these two treatment modalities, however.

I'm sure CBT is always an option that is available, but I actually agree that transgender people should never be forced down that particular path. If the decision were left up to doctors, there would be too much opportunity for denying effective help based on prejudice.