Cont: The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Safe-Keeper]

To paraphrase America's greatest moral philosopher, Bruce Springsteen, "Everybody dies, and that's a fact..." Trumpers like Gavin seem to think that if all causes of death can't be eliminated, none should be. Chances are he would be arguing against seat belts, air bags, OSHA regulations, traffic laws, building codes, preventative health care etc. on the same basis.

I remember how furious they got after 9/11 when people tried to point out to them that the risk of terrorist attacks was actually very low, so maybe the draconian measures put in place by the Bush regime weren't neccessary.

You know, the spying on American citizens, banning political dissidents from flying on airplanes, kidnapping and torturing people, and invading two countries, overthrowing their regimes, and occupying them for over a decade each.

These are the same people trying to handwave 150 000 deaths and whining about being asked to wear a face mask and maintain a distance of six feet to other people.

Consistent, they ain't.

 

[Bob001]

Trump promises, sorta, a vaccine by Election Day:

President Trump on Thursday said he thinks it's possible there will be a COVID-19 vaccine ready around Election Day in November.

"I think in some cases, yes, possible before, but right around that time," Trump said on Geraldo Rivera's radio show when asked if he thought a vaccine would be ready by Nov. 3.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...accine-may-be-ready-right-around-election-day

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump promises, sorta, a vaccine by Election Day:

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...accine-may-be-ready-right-around-election-day

If it works, it was all due to him.
If not, Democrats are to blame.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

The daily death toll in US of heart disease is about 1774. During the peak in NY and NJ the daily death toll was much higher than that (2749 on apr 21), before the lockdown there brought the numbers down. And that was only NY and NJ. We can only guess what the daily numbers would have been if no lockdown had been implemented. Now try to imagine the daily numbers with no mitigating efforts anywhere in all of US. Would you wait untill the number had surpassed the yearly number of heart disease before doing anything to stop it?

Yesterdays number of Covid-related deaths in the US was 1311 according to Worldometer and states are locking down again. Do you really need to see the death toll surpass the heart disease death toll before you'll agree that something needs to be done?

Also, I can't help but notice that every other item on the list is all kinds of cancer, all kinds of heart disease, all kinds of accidents, et cetera. Cancer isn't one disease, it's a group of them, just like how our variant of SARS is just that, one variant.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Trump promises, sorta, a vaccine by Election Day:

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...accine-may-be-ready-right-around-election-day

Only if he wins. If he doesn't get 270 electoral votes, he'll take his vaccine and go home.

Not looking too good so far.

 

[Bob001]

Only if he wins. If he doesn't get 270 electoral votes, he'll take his vaccine and go home.

Not looking too good so far.

One interesting thing about that map is that it shows the two states -- Maine and Nebraska -- where electoral votes are allocated by congressional district, not by state. It would be interesting to know what a map of the entire country would look like by that standard.

 

[Bob001]

Only if he wins. If he doesn't get 270 electoral votes, he'll take his vaccine and go home.

Not looking too good so far.

A lot of smart people think Trump could steal a close election, either with the connivance of Repub state legislatures or by creating enough state challenges to throw the election into the House, where each state -- not each representative -- gets one vote.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-election/608989/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/election-night-mail-in-voting-sabotage.html
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/could-trump-try-to-steal-the-2020-election

 

[JeanTate]

Covid is not the leading cause of death in the us
Heart disease: 647,457
Cancer: 599,108
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383

How long do we shut down it's not going away there is there are thousands of questions on the topic

80 thousand people died of the flue in 2018 and we have
vaccine for it

Here’s one such question: without a widely distributed, effective vaccine, and without continued “shut down”, covid would almost certainly kill well over a million people in the US, by ~mid-2021. When should we - you, I, others who’ve posted to this thread - discuss how to deal with that?

 

[Solitaire]

If he doesn't get 270 electoral votes, he'll take his vaccine and go home.

I don't think he can afford it.

A single corona virus costs around six figures.

A single vaccine shot might cost him nine figures.

Go figure.

 

[Trebuchet]

One interesting thing about that map is that it shows the two states -- Maine and Nebraska -- where electoral votes are allocated by congressional district, not by state. It would be interesting to know what a map of the entire country would look like by that standard.

It'd be a better way to do it, if not for gerrymandering.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

80 thousand people died of the flue in 2018 and we have
vaccine for it

Flue, like they got stuck in their chimneys?

I don't think that 80K number is right (should be less), but I'm not going to bother looking it up.

 

[Trebuchet]

Flue, like they got stuck in their chimneys? [emoji14]

I don't think that 80K number is right (should be less), but I'm not going to bother looking it up.

And its still only half the number that have died of Covid-19 on 2020. Along with those who are still going to die of the "flue".
I can't help wondering which banned or flounce former member Gavin might be. One the less imaginative ones, thats for sure.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Here’s one such question: without a widely distributed, effective vaccine, and without continued “shut down”, covid would almost certainly kill well over a million people in the US, by ~mid-2021. When should we - you, I, others who’ve posted to this thread - discuss how to deal with that?

We can any time, but it will be one of those un-anchored discussions without resolution unless anyone in power ever gets around to having those discussions, too. We'll just spit-ball ideas, shoot everyone else's ideas down with keen insight, get butt hurt about our ideas being denied for "reasons", and never have a baseline of what informed, rational people actually end up doing about it.

I suggest a dedicated thread called "sensible solutions to the COVID pandemic." We should save the trouble and go ahead and pre-locate it in AAH.

 

[newyorkguy]

The health risk to children from Covid-19 seems to be evolving. Below is a quote from a brief news report from WFLA-TV in Tampa, Florida. It appeared on their website almost a month ago:

One of the only bright spots about the COVID-19 pandemic has been its relatively small impact on young people, especially kids. Now that dynamic appears to be changing. A month ago, Florida health officials had reported only one death among people younger than 25. Over the next two weeks, four more young people died. Now it’s 12, including two deaths in kids younger than 12.

“Perfectly healthy people have died of COVID,” said Dr. Jill Roberts, associate professor at USF School of Public Health. She also pointed out that death is the worst outcome — but there are plenty of other health and financial issues that could result from becoming sick with COVID-19. “Death is the end point we’re most concerned with, but that’s not the only end point,” said Dr. Roberts. “We have young people who’ve gotten sick who are reporting long-lasting health issues. They’re still having trouble breathing. They still had organ failure that occurred.” WFLA link

 

[Gavin]

"Our data is compiled from 131 studies and encompasses 7,780 patients who span the pediatric age spectrum,"

19% of the pediatric population with COVID-19 had no symptoms.
21% exhibited patchy lesions on lung X-rays.
5.6% suffered from co-infections, such as flu, on top of COVID-19.
3.3% were admitted to intensive care units.
Seven deaths were reported.

And, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, death is not the only consequence.

It said children where involved in in the test but doesn’t give percentage
From the article:
In 233 individuals, a past medical history was noted, and among this group, 152 were children with compromised immune systems or who had underlying respiratory or cardiac disease.

The number of children with excellent outcomes surprised the research team. "Although we are hearing about severe forms of the disease in children, this is occurring in very rare circumstances," Dr. Moreira said

 

[Gavin]

Here’s one such question: without a widely distributed, effective vaccine, and without continued “shut down”, covid would almost certainly kill well over a million people in the US, by ~mid-2021. When should we - you, I, others who’ve posted to this thread - discuss how to deal with that?

More than 80% of deaths occur in people aged 65 and over. That increases to over 92% if the 55-64 age group is included.
Over 40% where in nursing homes.
My question was do just stay locked down until there is a vaccine which could be a year or more I suppose we will all be starving and homeless but didn’t get covid

 

[Gavin]

Yes, I am sorry for that. But my point is you cannot just look at deaths. When something like 5-10 people have permanent health damage for every one who dies that gets lost in the chaff. In a nation where the current President promises the sea with regards to healthcare but delivers only a rancid damp dishrag this is going to hurt people in the long run.

There is no way to tell if there is going to be long term health damage we only have 4 to 6 months to go on the more severe cases had
Because it is a new disease, there is limited information regarding overall COVID-19 risk. However, we do know that being an older adult and/or having certain underlying conditions put you at higher risk for severe illness from the COVID-19.

 

[kookbreaker]

There is no way to tell if there is going to be long term health damage we only have 4 to 6 months to go on the more severe cases had
Because it is a new disease, there is limited information regarding overall COVID-19 risk. However, we do know that being an older adult and/or having certain underlying conditions put you at higher risk for severe illness from the COVID-19.

Damage is damage. Things like Pneumonia & Sepsis happen as a result of COVID infections and we know the damage they can wreak. Don't play the unknown card here.

 

[kookbreaker]

It said children where involved in in the test but doesn’t give percentage
From the article:
In 233 individuals, a past medical history was noted, and among this group, 152 were children with compromised immune systems or who had underlying respiratory or cardiac disease.

The number of children with excellent outcomes surprised the research team. "Although we are hearing about severe forms of the disease in children, this is occurring in very rare circumstances," Dr. Moreira said

So we have gone from "only 1 in a million will die" to a pile of special pleading as to why the number is much higher than that.

Your argument has diminishing returns.

 

[Gavin]

So we have gone from "only 1 in a million will die" to a pile of special pleading as to why the number is much higher than that.

Your argument has diminishing returns.

Your reply has diminishing returns not allot of detail to go on.