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Ed Do you like your cheese?

And? Was "Coon cheese" a popular well known cheese when you were growing up, was "coon" used as a racial insult when you were growing up?

Thats because you did not grow up in Australia.
And you are wrong.

The answer to both question put by Darat is both “yes” and “yes”.

This doesn't exclude me from thinking it is pointless
Actually it does, since you are so obviously ignorant of Australian social mores and the background to the argument at hand.

For the same reason, I don’t engage on commentary about white/Maori relations, you should think twice about lecturing people about social relationships you have no experience or background with.
 
Sometimes you have to change things. That's evolution.

Personally, pointing to the breed name as referring to a dog who hunts raccoons sounds rather lame. It's how the words together are perceived *now* that matters.

So it needs to change.

This reminds me of "The circle game." The circle game involved making the "OK" hand gesture. You try to place it near your crotch, so someone looks, and you can either then make fun of them or punch them in the arm, depending on how you play. It's a schoolyard game. But, that symbol, the "OK" symbol, which even has an emoji, and is purely innocent, has now been appropriated by racists as part of the White Power movement, as "OK" can also look like the letters W and P.

Do you want to keep going around making the OK sign or playing a silly schoolyard game and be conflated with the White Power movement? I sure as hell don't. So I'll stop making the OK gesture. I'll stop holding up three fingers the "carney way" when saying the number three because I would be absolutely mortified if anyone were to think I was doing something racist. It's an easy change. What's so hard about doing it? Yeah, it's too freakin' bad some bad people have taken over something innocent. But I'm not going to keep doing something when it's a simple change of habit to avoid perpetuating a hateful ideology.
The ok sign started off as a joke on 4Chan to see if they could turn a straight forward innocuous gesture into something associated with hate.

It worked.

They won.

And not doing it any more, (I have actually never. As I just tend to say "okay") just panders to their egos.

But by all means. Be manipulated by idiot teenagers
 
Your wife sounds pretty sensitive. She needs to relax and learn that it always isn't about her or her skin tone. If you look for hidden meanings and try and analyze every word or statement for some indication of ulterior motive you will never find peace.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Really? You, a member of the white majority, are telling a black person that they are just being too sensitive, too silly, and should not be offended or not by a use of a term that has a long history as a racial slur directed against blacks. After, in fact, members of this forum had specifically requested that black people be asked if they are offended by this term. Apparently she had the “wrong” answer for you to accept it.

Don’t you think your post might be viewed as a bit insulting, condescending, and presumptuous?
 
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Around 30 years ago, a friend from the UK saw Coon Cheese in an Australian supermarket and said to me, "WTF, you have a cheese called Coon here? That would never be allowed in the UK or the US".

It's a huge embarrassment to Australia that:

A) It's taken this long to change it, and;
B) That there are still people saying to keep it even though they all know it's seen as racist.
 
Around 30 years ago, a friend from the UK saw Coon Cheese in an Australian supermarket and said to me, "WTF, you have a cheese called Coon here? That would never be allowed in the UK or the US".

It's a huge embarrassment to Australia that:

A) It's taken this long to change it, and;
B) That there are still people saying to keep it even though they all know it's seen as racist.
Kind of pot calling the kettle black though.
 
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why continue to fight against putting it right?
I'm not fighting anything.

I don't actually care if they change the name.

As I have said I am not an Aussie. Have never seen it or brought it.

All I said was I thought it was stupid as it is someone's last name.

I hope your British friend got home alright to buy her Faggots from tescos
 
Since it's an Aussie thing, I didn't actually know there was a Coon cheese.

When I see the name Coon, I think of this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_L._Coon


Maybe if they named it something like "Edward Coon Style Cheese". Or just "Ed Coon". Redesign the logo so that it's more obvious that it's a guy's name. Bah. There's a reason I'm in engineering instead of marketing.

I'm not trying to be flippant with this next question. Honestly. We've heard that calling a dog a Coon Hound is racist, so what about the Maine Coon cat breed? Like I say, it's a serious question. They are named because they are larger than average cats, like the size of a raccoon, that often have ringed tails.

I'm just trying to grasp what it is that makes a name racist. There is absolutely zero doubt that the cat breed is named for its resemblance to a raccoon, but the actual origin of the name seems pretty irrelevant. The cheese is named for a guy who invented the cheese-making process used to make the cheese, but because the name has a different meaning, people say that using the guy's name is racist, at least when applied to cheese.

With cats, I suppose the "Maine" descriptor makes it sound less jarring. I've never heard anyone refer to the breed without the "Maine" part.. It's always "Maine Coon", so maybe that's enough separation, verbally, that no one gets confused. I hope so. Otherwise, the state of Maine is going to have to change its official state cat.
 
I'm not fighting anything.

I don't actually care if they change the name.

As I have said I am not an Aussie. Have never seen it or brought it.

All I said was I thought it was stupid as it is someone's last name.

I hope your British friend got home alright to buy her Faggots from tescos

Is a cigarette a faggot? I've heard it called a fag, but never a faggot. Or were you saying she was going to buy some firewood?


And how come the new meaning of something is always either the sexual or offensive meaning? So we take a word that has one meaning, and then say that it has a second, different, meaning that is either sexual or offensive, and that becomes the meaning of the word. I could insist that a raised middle finger means "Peace be with you", but no one would ever buy it, because they think of something offensive for that gesture, but when someone says there's an offensive meaning to the familiar "ok" gesture, now people are fired for making the gesture. (See the "cancel culture" thread.)
 
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Is a cigarette a faggot? I've heard it called a fag, but never a faggot. Or were you saying she was going to buy some firewood.
It's a British meatball type thing.

I said earlier it cracked me up when I first saw them.
 
Is a cigarette a faggot? I've heard it called a fag, but never a faggot. Or were you saying she was going to buy some firewood?


And how come the new meaning of something is always either the sexual or offensive meaning? So we take a word that has one meaning, and then say that it has a second, different, meaning that is either sexual or offensive, and that becomes the meaning of the word.

What about saying "that sucks" or "douchebag"? Didn't they used to have much more vulgar/sexual meanings and then lost them?

Also, some words used to be seriously offensive if they were related to religion, "damn", "bloody", "hell", and "Jesus Christ!" but these are generally not considered that offensive any more.

From what I remember, taboo words tend to fall into 4 categories: excrement, sexual, religious, ethnic.

Some cultures have a greater taboo about one side more than another. In Spanish people often say "I will **** on God/The Virgin Mary" and French Canadians have some weird thing about thinking "tabernacle" is like the most offensive thing you can say.

In English, cultures that used to have religion as the worst words could have you up for blasphemy if you used religious words inappropriately and they were still considered pretty bad until a generation or two ago. Then excrement and sexual swearwords probably were the worst word you could use hence Carlin's Seven Words you can't say on TV all to do with them. The "C-word" was probably the most offensive word in the US even though it is a perfectly ordinary term of affection between family members in Australia, "Hey granny you old ******" sounds bad in America, but it is a perfectly ordinary way to wish your granmother happy birthday in Brisbane (I may be exaggerating)


An Australian colleague of mine recently said to a kid, "Come here ya little bugger!" and I had to tell him it's probably best he doesn't use that. Why? Because although the word "bugger" is becoming more and more associated as a word you could call some kid, anyone looking it up in the dictionary is probably going to find it referred to as offensive and sexual.

These days, I think all these words can be on TV and if you object you are a bit of an old fuddy duddy.

However, words that have supplanted those are racist terms, and people's acceptance of them is going down all the time. Even uses of it that seemed to indicate someone's character are becoming difficult for audiences to stomach. The N-word raised a slight eyebrow with Pulp Fiction, but with Hateful Eight some people were beginning to think that Tarantino was enjoying it a bit too much. I think it might get even harder for him to put it in his scripts as willy-nilly as in the past.

Peter Jackson, if he remakes Dambusters, has said he will rename the black labrador Digger, and the name is not usually broadcast on TV anymore. You can object if you want, but personally, if you broadcast it during the day, I don't blame people for thinking, "Hey, this name is not going to go over as well today as it did in the past. Maybe we censor it from the 2 o'clock broaddcast....?"

So in answer to your question, it's not all one-way traffic, and people begin to get accustomed to taboo words in some cases, and less tolerant of them in other places. Languages and societies change.


I could insist that a raised middle finger means "Peace be with you", but no one would ever buy it, because they think of something offensive for that gesture, but when someone says there's an offensive meaning to the familiar "ok" gesture, now people are fired for making the gesture. (See the "cancel culture" thread.)

Yeah, but making up your own slang and your own meanings almost never works. I could insist that helicopters are called Escadors but that doesn't mean people will start agreeing to my use does it? It requires agreement among speakers.
 
What about saying "that sucks" or "douchebag"? Didn't they used to have much more vulgar/sexual meanings and then lost them?

Good point. I can remember when "sucks" was vulgar, but now it's pretty acceptable, and the sexual connotation is barely remembered.

Rats. Wrong again.

(The rest of the post made sense, too.)
 
Probably just me being naive and kind of obvious when thinking about it.

But "that sucks" has never been vulgar in my experience.

Might be a regional thing. (Either that or I come from a particularly dim place :) )
 
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Good point. I can remember when "sucks" was vulgar, but now it's pretty acceptable, and the sexual connotation is barely remembered.

Rats. Wrong again.

(The rest of the post made sense, too.)
I have no issue with the rest of the post either, but disagree that sucks was vulgar in intent.

I’ve always thought of it, and used it, in the context of “that sucks air

OK Urban Dictionary is not the greatest of cites sure, but, except for “suck my dick”, none (Not many)of the other “suck” variants are vulgar?

I’m not sure how accurate their etymology is, but this is how they go at sucks,
The early Jazz musicians would say that a guy could really "Blow" if he had a good sound when playing the horn. If he couldn't play very well then they would say that he was "Sucking" on that horn. That's where the term "Suck" as being something bad came from.
He plays that horn so poorly that he must be sucking on it​

I much prefer, “ya boo sucks to all swots gurls and masters”
 
I hope your British friend got home alright to buy her Faggots from tescos

He has never mentioned them, so I asked him.

He says his mum used to give them to the family when he was a kid, but he thinks they tasted terrible.

He's lived in Australia since 1992 and has never bought them in that time, and I've never seen them in the shops.

Are they in the shops in NZ?
 
Probably just me being naive and kind of obvious when thinking about it.

But "that sucks" has never been vulgar in my experience.

Might be a regional thing. (Either that or I come from a particularly dim place :) )

I have no issue with the rest of the post either, but disagree that sucks was vulgar in intent.

I’ve always thought of it, and used it, in the context of “that sucks air

OK Urban Dictionary is not the greatest of cites sure, but, except for “suck my dick”, none (Not many)of the other “suck” variants are vulgar?

I’m not sure how accurate their etymology is, but this is how they go at sucks,
The early Jazz musicians would say that a guy could really "Blow" if he had a good sound when playing the horn. If he couldn't play very well then they would say that he was "Sucking" on that horn. That's where the term "Suck" as being something bad came from.
He plays that horn so poorly that he must be sucking on it​

I much prefer, “ya boo sucks to all swots gurls and masters”

According to the online etymological dictionary:

Meaning "do fellatio" is first recorded 1928. Slang sense of "be contemptible" first attested 1971 (the underlying notion is of fellatio).
 
He has never mentioned them, so I asked him.



He says his mum used to give them to the family when he was a kid, but he thinks they tasted terrible.



He's lived in Australia since 1992 and has never bought them in that time, and I've never seen them in the shops.



Are they in the shops in NZ?
Not that I have seen. But we do have shops specialising in British goods.

(It is where I buy my Quavers; real marmite, sweppes bitter lemon and twig let's from)!

So a few of them may do.

I have made them from scratch since being back.

Were lovely


Edit: OR even Schweppes if I could spell
 
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