Supreme Court strikes down restrictive Louisiana abortion law

[PhantomWolf]

So, every single item I withhold from everybody that I find objectionable is punishment?

Separately, this isn't a case of imposing because of some, "sinful act".

Of course it is. We know that the pro-life cause is being pushed by the right wing fundamentalist religious because they see sex outside of marriage as a sin (heck half of them see sex that's not for procreation to be a sin) and want to use the law to force people into following their form of morality. If it wasn't then we'd see the same people protesting against abortion also pushing for birth control, and... oh yeah, they're not the ones pushing for birth control, they are the ones protesting that too.

 

[Sherman Bay]

I'd suggest lifelong terms are part of the problem.

Lifelong terms are what brings stability and continuity to the court's decisions.

If you like the decision, that's a good thing. Otherwise, not so much.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Of course it is. We know that the pro-life cause is being pushed by the right wing fundamentalist religious because they see sex outside of marriage as a sin (heck half of them see sex that's not for procreation to be a sin) and want to use the law to force people into following their form of morality. If it wasn't then we'd see the same people protesting against abortion also pushing for birth control, and... oh yeah, they're not the ones pushing for birth control, they are the ones protesting that too.

A) People within a marriage wouldn't be able to have abortions or use birth control, either.

B) Forcing morality isn't a punishment. It is imposing morality. The punishment comes from what they do after you commit the crime.

Saying you cant steal is not punishment. It is the imprisonment that is the punishment.

 

[thaiboxerken]

You think that having a conservative court pushing religious decisions over the Constitution is a good idea?

Of course he does, but only if it's the correct religion.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Of course it is. We know that the pro-life cause is being pushed by the right wing fundamentalist religious because they see sex outside of marriage as a sin (heck half of them see sex that's not for procreation to be a sin) and want to use the law to force people into following their form of morality. If it wasn't then we'd see the same people protesting against abortion also pushing for birth control, and... oh yeah, they're not the ones pushing for birth control, they are the ones protesting that too.

Yes. Those pretending that restricting abortion isn't about punishing women are dishonest.

 

[Ziggurat]

Of course it is. We know that the pro-life cause is being pushed by the right wing fundamentalist religious because they see sex outside of marriage as a sin (heck half of them see sex that's not for procreation to be a sin) and want to use the law to force people into following their form of morality. If it wasn't then we'd see the same people protesting against abortion also pushing for birth control, and... oh yeah, they're not the ones pushing for birth control, they are the ones protesting that too.

That's often not true. The push for birth control pills to be available OTC has been coming from Republicans, not Democrats.

 

[thaiboxerken]

https://time.com/5609049/over-counter-birth-control-bipartisan/

Republicans are starting to call for expanded birth control. I wouldn't say it's "bipartisan" if bipartisan would mean a close to equal number on both sides.

This still doesn't change the fact that anti-abortion movement is about punishing women.

 

[thaiboxerken]

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/20/wh...trol-because-they-dont-want-women-to-have-it/

Why are Republicans taking away birth control? Because they don't want women to have it

 

[PhantomWolf]

A) People within a marriage wouldn't be able to have abortions or use birth control, either.

B) Forcing morality isn't a punishment. It is imposing morality. The punishment comes from what they do after you commit the crime.

Saying you cant steal is not punishment. It is the imprisonment that is the punishment.

You mean like how the being forced to carry happens after the crime of sex?

 

[PhantomWolf]

That's often not true. The push for birth control pills to be available OTC has been coming from Republicans, not Democrats.

I'd love for you to point out some of these Pro-Life, Pro-Birth Control Republicans.....

 

[BobTheCoward]

You mean like how the being forced to carry happens after the crime of sex?

They dont think sex is wrong. Christians have sex. It is encouraged.

 

[Puppycow]

Nothing wrong with reiterating the previous ruling. The basic idea is a seemingly reasonable law, or a set of such, if they stack up to block a constitutional right, are unconstitutional.

I hope people remember this crucially important principle when cases from California get to the SC, where "no gun stores within 1000 feet of a school" turn out to ban all gun stores in a county.

If a gun store is needed in every county, wouldn't it follow that every county also needs an abortion clinic?

If having to travel outside your own county is an undue burden for gun owners, or would-be gun purchasers, wouldn't it also be an undue burden for women seeking an abortion?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

If the goal of pro-life advocates was to reduce the number of abortions, they wouldn't do what they are doing.

 

[Segnosaur]

For example, if you chose to withhold antibiotics from someone suffering from bacterial pneumonia just because you think the person was somehow 'bad' for getting pneumonia, then you would be punishing them because the medical condition can easily be handled.

So, every single item I withhold from everybody that I find objectionable is punishment?

If if is your duty to to provide that item, then it is.

Alternatively, if you interfere with someone else getting that item from another source, then it is.

Just realized... this thread is getting bobbed.

 

[PhantomWolf]

They dont think sex is wrong. Christians have sex. It is encouraged.

Seriously, this is why talking to you is impossible. We were clearly, based on previous postings, talking about sex outside of wedlock (and/or sex that is not for procreation, but resulted in a pregnancy anyways.) Do I really have to keep on explaining that in every single post rather than relying on your ability to keep up with the thread?

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Spoken like a man who has never faced having to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.

No one has ever told you that you couldn't take a crap for nine months so stop comparing carrying a child and giving birth to defecating.

What you are doing is called special pleading. That isn't actually a case for why it is some exceptional biological process that makes it a punishment but not others.

No, it's not special pleading:

1) an argument in which the speaker deliberately ignores aspects that are unfavorable to their point of view.

2) appeals to give a particular interest group special treatment.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'd love for you to point out some of these Pro-Life, Pro-Birth Control Republicans.....

Joni Ernst, for example. Is this honestly news to you that such people exist?

 

[Segnosaur]

I'd love for you to point out some of these Pro-Life, Pro-Birth Control Republicans.....

Joni Ernst, for example. Is this honestly news to you that such people exist?

Its a little bit more complex than you are really letting on.

Yes, there are some republicans who are pushing for things like making birth control over-the-counter.

But, Republicans have also supported measures that remove birth control from health insurance plans. So even if birth control is available over the counter, if it is removed from insurance plans it becomes more expensive for women. In other words, republicans who want over-the-counter birth control aren't so much interested in promoting contraception as they are giving themselves cover for their attempts to destroy health care. If someone like Joni Ernst has her way, birth control actually becomes harder to get for many women.

Plans to remove birth control from Republican health care plan (Vox)

Trump administration attempting to get court to rule against Birth control requirements (CNBC)

It should also be noted that Republicans are not the only ones who support over-the-counter birth control... Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez supports it as well. However, unlike republicans, she is taking steps to make sure that even if its available over-the-counter, its availability will not be affected by changes in medical insurance plans.

See: Vox

 

[BobTheCoward]

Seriously, this is why talking to you is impossible. We were clearly, based on previous postings, talking about sex outside of wedlock (and/or sex that is not for procreation, but resulted in a pregnancy anyways.) Do I really have to keep on explaining that in every single post rather than relying on your ability to keep up with the thread?

About 15% of abortions are for married women. Those would be banned also. Christians in marriages are encouraged to have sex for pleasure (rhythm method).

The structures of their proposed laws clearly are targeted against an act they oppose itself,

 

[BobTheCoward]

No, it's not special pleading:

1) an argument in which the speaker deliberately ignores aspects that are unfavorable to their point of view.

2) appeals to give a particular interest group special treatment.

Yes, it is. They are ignoring how prohibitions are structured. Nearly every prohibition is an attempt to force someone down a course of action they may not prefer. Those are not punishment. This person is completely ignoring the structure of law to label these laws as punishment with no explanation.