Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 23

[dudalb]

The main theories about Trump's fondness for Putin and Russia are:
A:Trump obesession with having a Trump Tower in Moscow.
B. Trump borrowed huge amounts of money from Russian Bankers in league with Putin
C> Putin has something on Trump.
Take your pick.

 

[shemp]

A.Stalin and Mao say hi.
B.As much as I hate Trump,he not as dangerous as Adlof, Uncle Joe and Mao were.

Neither Uncle Joe nor Mao had the ability to destroy civilization. Uncle Joe didn't even have a real cult of personality; few Russians worshipped him, most simply obeyed out of fear. Mao had no influence outside of China.

Hitler was the only truly dangerous one on a worldwide level. If he had succeeded in defeating the Soviet Union, he (and his Japanese allies) would have been virtually unbeatable. They probably couldn't have invaded the U.S. directly, but they would have been able to prolong the war or force a truce until von Braun and his boys could develop an ICBM, something the U.S. was nowhere near developing.

What really saved the world was the mistake the Japanese made of not attacking the Soviet Union. Stalin couldn't have survived a two-front war.

Trump and his cult have the ability to destroy civilization in the U.S., not through weapons but through sheer stupidity, gullibility and pig-headed obstinacy. 40% of the people in this country really do believe the absolutely moronic **** Trump peddles. It's destroying us as a nation. He's killing people with his lies and ********! He's tearing us apart. And once we're torn apart, China and Russia will pick up whatever's left, and European democracy won't stand a chance.

It isn't just Trump we're up against. We're up against a sea of stupid. And I don't think that even a Biden victory will be enough to turn the tide.

 

[Minoosh]

Except that for GOP supporters, the Confederates were not traitors, they were brave patriots preserving whites' civil rights against the tyranny of federal government overreach.

Except for the purposes of this thread I had never given this subject a passing thought until it was brought to my attention, and then I thought: By all means change the name of these bases; it's terrible messaging. But actually I don't care much one way or another. If honoring Confederate heroes helped the nation heal, I wouldn't automatically rule it out. But if it's going to be a continuing source of friction, get rid of it. It does seem like a curious practice, and I'd rather see U.S. soldiers honored vs. explicit traitors. Not a hard call IMO.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Except for the purposes of this thread I had never given this subject a passing thought until it was brought to my attention, and then I thought: By all means change the name of these bases; it's terrible messaging. But actually I don't care much one way or another. If honoring Confederate heroes helped the nation heal, I wouldn't automatically rule it out. But if it's going to be a continuing source of friction, get rid of it. It does seem like a curious practice, and I'd rather see U.S. soldiers honored vs. explicit traitors. Not a hard call IMO.

Honestly, in the big wide world outside of the USA most people don't know or follow US history closely at all. So nobody knows that these bases were indeed named after Confederates, or why this may be a bad thing. Of course it matters to many Americans. But it doesn't matter to us. Just call them Camp Alpha, Camp Bravo, Camp Charlie...for all we care.

 

[Tassman]

The main theories about Trump's fondness for Putin and Russia are:
A:Trump obesession with having a Trump Tower in Moscow.
B. Trump borrowed huge amounts of money from Russian Bankers in league with Putin
C> Putin has something on Trump.
Take your pick.

All of the above.

 

[Pixel42]

I read a while back that financial experts believe Putin bought Trump's debts from Deutsche Bank. If true, that would mean Trump owes Putin millions of dollars. Which would explain a lot.

 

[Segnosaur]

Re: Military bases named after confederate soldiers...

Except for the purposes of this thread I had never given this subject a passing thought until it was brought to my attention, and then I thought: By all means change the name of these bases; it's terrible messaging. But actually I don't care much one way or another. If honoring Confederate heroes helped the nation heal, I wouldn't automatically rule it out. But if it's going to be a continuing source of friction, get rid of it. It does seem like a curious practice, and I'd rather see U.S. soldiers honored vs. explicit traitors. Not a hard call IMO.

I took a look at when some of the bases were built/named:
Fort Bragg: Established 1918. Fort Benning: Built 1909. Fort Hood: Built 1942. Fort Rucker: Built 1942. Fort Lee: Built 1917.

None of those bases (at least the ones I looked at) dates back to the civil war. So the oldest of those was set up over 4 decades after the civil war. Some of the newer ones were. The newer ones were over 7 decades after the civil war.

Personally I think 4 decades was more than enough time for the country to "heal".

 

[The Don]

I'm not buying this pessimism. His base is slowly being chipped away. Look at the number of Republicans that are now speaking out against Trump.

Lots of Republicans have spoken out about him, but when push comes to shove they back him when it matters.

His poll numbers are also remarkably resilient. 40% of the US electorate think he's doing a fine job.

 

[Bob001]

By all means change the name of these bases; it's terrible messaging. But actually I don't care much one way or another. If honoring Confederate heroes helped the nation heal, I wouldn't automatically rule it out.......

But that was never their intent. These statues weren't put up and these bases weren't named right after the Civil War as a gesture of healing or a memorial to the dead. They were established in the 20th century as part of blatant, organized resistance to the civil rights movement. Many of the bases were created and named around World War I, at the same time President Wilson was re- segregating federal government offices, and some weren't named until WWII. This is all part of the "glorious history" myth. These people were traitors who went to war against the United States. America might be a different place today if they had all been hanged in 1865.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The main theories about Trump's fondness for Putin and Russia are:
A:Trump obesession with having a Trump Tower in Moscow.
B. Trump borrowed huge amounts of money from Russian Bankers in league with Putin
C> Putin has something on Trump.
Take your pick.

D: Trump imagines himself as powerful as Putin. Trump is a Putin wannabe.

I pick D.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I read a while back that financial experts believe Putin bought Trump's debts from Deutsche Bank. If true, that would mean Trump owes Putin millions of dollars. Which would explain a lot.

At a minimum Putin can expose Trump's money laundering enterprise and Trump being a faux billionaire.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Lots of Republicans have spoken out about him, but when push comes to shove they back him when it matters.

His poll numbers are also remarkably resilient. 40% of the US electorate think he's doing a fine job.

They did. I'm not sure they still do.

Remember, the economy was a big Trump selling point. That's a bust.

At most Trump still has the white supremacists and the Evangelicals that are still hoping to get one more antiabortion SCOTUS seat.

40% of voters is not a winning number even with the EC. You have to get those middle undecideds.

 

[Aridas]

The guy really isn't very patriotic maybe patriotism is a democrat plank now.

Ehh... the issue is a bit more complicated than that. Still, there are a couple simple things worth remembering on that topic.

Republican propagandists have effectively redefined short-memory tribalism into patriotism when it comes to their base. Or, to put it a different way.

Fascism is hard to recognize when it comes wrapped in the American flag.

To be clear, that doesn't mean that all Republican claims of patriotism are false. Many are not. Yet the very concept of patriotism is actively being eroded by those who make false claims about it, knowingly or not, especially by those who are better described as the more aggressive and generally darker "nationalists." Nationalism is similar to patriotism, after all, in many ways, and they can be very easily conflated.

Democrats, I would suggest, tend to be much less likely to be patriotic in the sense of specifically focusing on the country as an object of blind veneration, and more patriotic in the sense of working to make the country better and more prosperous for all of the people who make it up and for the future.

 

[The Atheist]

He and his followers have the potential to destroy society and civilization as we know it.

It's comments like that which make me very happy to be living in a place 10,000 km away that most Americans couldn't find on a map.

The main theories about Trump's fondness for Putin and Russia are:
A:Trump obesession with having a Trump Tower in Moscow.
B. Trump borrowed huge amounts of money from Russian Bankers in league with Putin
C> Putin has something on Trump.
Take your pick.

D - Jealousy.

He sees Putin as the kind of mentally and phsyically strong man he wishes he was, because underneath his insecurity, he knows he's a cowardly failure, and Putin is not.

All of the above probably works, too.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

D: Trump imagines himself as powerful as Putin. Trump is a Putin wannabe.

I pick D.

....

D - Jealousy.

He sees Putin as the kind of mentally and phsyically strong man he wishes he was, because underneath his insecurity, he knows he's a cowardly failure, and Putin is not.

All of the above probably works, too.

I think my D and your D are about the same.

 

[Darat]

RINOS!

No, RINOS'!

 

[The Don]

They did. I'm not sure they still do.

Remember, the economy was a big Trump selling point. That's a bust.

At most Trump still has the white supremacists and the Evangelicals that are still hoping to get one more antiabortion SCOTUS seat.

40% of voters is not a winning number even with the EC. You have to get those middle undecideds.

You're right, 40% of the electorate isn't a winning margin unless you can get a significantly larger proportion of that 40% to vote than the other 60% and/or you can split that 60%.

Just spitballing here but let's pretend that turnout would otherwise be 100% (as opposed to the 50%-60% it really is).

One sixth of that 60% are Republicans who are absolutely sick of President Trump but they cannot bring themselves to vote Democrat - they just stay at home - now it's 40% Trump, 50% not-Trump and 10% not vote.

Another tenth of the 60% are Libertarians, Greens, Socialists and other people who won't vote for Trump, but they wont' vote for Biden either - now it's 40% Trump, 44% Democrat, 6% Third Party and 10% not vote.

Now let's say that the GOP push their voter suppression efforts into overdrive. They purge voter rolls, they make postal voting nigh-on impossible in Democrat-leaning districts (whilst making it really easy in GOP-leaning ones) and they have as few polling stations as possible in Democrat-leaning areas and/or have "unfortunate" issues with the voting infrastructure which means that people would have to queue for hours to vote - many can't afford to do this and are disenfranchised. This could affect another one tenth of the non-Trump group - now it's 40% Trump, 44% Democrat, 6% Third Party, 6% can't vote and 10% not vote.

Despite having only 40% support, the GOP gets 47% of the votes cast to the Democrats' 45%.

Heck, I'm pretty sure that the Democrats will have a significant lead over the GOP in the popular vote but still risk losing the Electoral College.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I read a while back that financial experts believe Putin bought Trump's debts from Deutsche Bank. If true, that would mean Trump owes Putin millions of dollars. Which would explain a lot.

Rumour has it the Russian mafia was laundering through Trump's casinos, so they were effectively bankrolling him. So Trump's "billionaire" status is really just however much pocket-money they gave him for "expenses", like gold-plated jets and stuff.

Of course, Pootie has long links to the same crowd, and is reputed to be king of that heap. Which means he has Trump's little pink balls and all his markers in his desk drawer. Which gives credence to Trump wanting private time with Pootie every now and then, and looking brow-beaten when he emerges from these "conversations". Donny is just ensuring his little secret doesn't get published, and what the price is for that not to happen.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Lots of Republicans have spoken out about him, but when push comes to shove they back him when it matters.

His poll numbers are also remarkably resilient. 40% of the US electorate think he's doing a fine job FOR THEM AND THEIR OWN POLITICAL PROSPECTS.

Slight clarification? because as soon as Trump becomes a liability, and he is fast becoming that now, he will be out on his arse so fast he won't have time to wipe the orange off.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Slight clarification? because as soon as Trump becomes a liability, and he is fast becoming that now, he will be out on his arse so fast he won't have time to wipe the orange off.

There is no good argument for Republicans to run on a "I'm not with Trump" platform: overwhelmingly, people vote for Party and won't vote D for President and R for House/Senate.
But going against Trump publicly could cost you the Primary, and, more importantly, campaign funds.

No, the GOP will only jettison Trump if the loses ... and then say that he only brought them coffee.