Anarchy in Seattle--Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

[Stout]

“Metaphorically speaking” meaning completely invented out of whole cloth? Just for the sake of my curiosity could you please indicate what parts of your highlighted post are facts rather than “metaphors?” And what is your source for this information?

Thanks.

You know what a metaphor is, don't you ?

Suppose, just suppose there was a source mentioned in the post I was responding to. Suppose I was actually able to research multiple sites for multiple viewpoints on this particular incident and suppose I was able to piece together that brief narrative I wrote, base solely on fact, with a couple of literary devices to continue a theme that previously popped up in this thread.

Now having been down this road ( not a literal road, but a figure of speech ) before where the baying mob ( not literally....or is it ? ) on a previous thread is unable to function without their sources being handed to them I shall enact the labour of posting a link so that the source itself can be attacked rather than the content that proves my somewwhat dramatic point.

The Blaze, possibly founded by Hitler.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Yeah, there is clearly a misinformation campaign going on from the right. Maybe I'm just jaded, or overly cynical, but I don't trust the other side to show the unvarnished truth.

Isn't that what the right always says when it knows it's in the wrong?

Dave

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Proud boys showed up at the CHAZ yesterday, assaulted a man, and smashed his phone.

Taking part in the assault and robbery was Tiny Toese, who is currently on probation for other violent crimes.

https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/status/1272718909737586688

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Seattle City Council unanimously voted to ban SPD from owning, purchasing, or using any crowd control weapons including tear gas, kinetic impact weapons (rubber bullets and similar weapons), water cannons, and acoustic weapons.

The council cited a lack of trustworthiness with these weapons.

The council also banned chokeholds and concealing bad numbers.

it's not just CHOP anarchists who have had enough of the SPD's brutality.

https://q13fox.com/2020/06/15/seattle-city-council-votes-unanimously-to-ban-police-from-using-chokeholds/

 

[Thermal]

Proud boys showed up at the CHAZ yesterday, assaulted a man, and smashed his phone.

Taking part in the assault and robbery was Tiny Toese, who is currently on probation for other violent crimes.

https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/status/1272718909737586688

It was 5 Proud Boys on one dude and they couldn't drop him. Then they ran off like scared kittens when one other guy strolled up. That's about as cowardly as you get.

No tags on the minivan they were in, which is a little weird.

 

[Leftus]

Isn't that what the right always says when it knows it's in the wrong?

Dave

Not sure how my belief that everyone in the media are lying (or showing only the facts that fit their pre-determined narrative), is a right wing point. But, then again, I don't watch either media.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Not sure how my belief that everyone in the media are lying (or showing only the facts that fit their pre-determined narrative), is a right wing point.

It seems to be what the right wing say whenever they get caught lying; "Yes, we lied, but we're sure that you tell lies too even though we can't think of any at the moment, so that proves you're exactly as bad as we are."

Dave

 

[Leftus]

Seattle City Council unanimously voted to ban SPD from owning, purchasing, or using any crowd control weapons including tear gas, kinetic impact weapons (rubber bullets and similar weapons), water cannons, and acoustic weapons.

The council cited a lack of trustworthiness with these weapons.

The council also banned chokeholds and concealing bad numbers.

it's not just CHOP anarchists who have had enough of the SPD's brutality.

https://q13fox.com/2020/06/15/seattle-city-council-votes-unanimously-to-ban-police-from-using-chokeholds/

So they banned non-lethal weapons, because they don't trust them to use them correctly, but are letting them keep the lethal ones?

I kinda get the ban on chokeholds. The problem is, they aren't really that dangerous when correctly applied. It's been used in various martial arts for centuries without incident. Hundreds of people are probably choked out every day in gyms across America. Zero deaths. But if they are done with malice, then yes, they can turn deadly.

From the article, the Mayor has agreed to a bunch of things that I've no real issue with. Maybe not a flat ban on prosecution for protestors. I would have left some room to go after anyone who committed a major felony. I'm not saying any were committed, I would also accept they are few and far between, but I would leave that door open.

But it does appear that the SPD could use a fumigation. They may need to fire everyone and post some job openings with a different set of standards. Sure, some might get re-hired, but you could weed a ton of the problems out with a proper interview and resume review.

So I guess my problem is they are looking at the tools and policies, and blaming the violence on those tools and policies and not at the people wielding those tools. The funny thing is the occupiers have that right. But they aren't selling that message. Ironically, it's the same issue I have with gun control. So maybe they should co-op some of those messages.

 

[crescent]

It seems to be what the right wing say whenever they get caught lying; "Yes, we lied, but we're sure that you tell lies too even though we can't think of any at the moment, so that proves you're exactly as bad as we are."

Dave

And that's a less and less defensible position to take in this era of live-feed video.

There are about a 1/2 dozen live feeds coming from CHAZ/CHOP at any given time. It is pretty easy to see quite a bit of what is happening without using the press at all.

Right now city workers are in there setting up cement traffic barriers. I think it may be to protect the "Black Live Matter" mural while still allowing some vehicle traffic along that street.

 

[crescent]

Some of the barriers are being removed by the protesters. The city has added new barriers in different locations. Apparently the city and the protesters have worked out an arrangement for traffic flow, with fewer closed roads.

Right now, a broken down car is preventing reopening of one of the checkpoints.



https://twitter.com/DeedeeKIRO7/status/1272647152284471296

Security from #CHAZ / #CHOP protest zone tells me they’re working with Seattle Fire, SDOT, and Public Utilities to change up some of the protest areas/ barricades and where emergency vehicles are allowed.

This is to improve first responder access.

https://twitter.com/DeedeeKIRO7/status/1272914164004999168

Big changes in the #CHAZ/ #CHOP this morning.

Seattle Fire and Department of Transportation moving the concrete barriers at 10th & E. Pine.

Part of protest area is opening up.

Fire Chief says this is part of the plan for improved emergency access.
@KIRO7Seattle

 

[Emily's Cat]

If you guys are so keen on wealth redistribution, I could use some scratch. I call my autonomous zone 'Cops Unwelcome Near Thermal's Street'. Cash is fine.

 

[dudalb]

Seattle City Council unanimously voted to ban SPD from owning, purchasing, or using any crowd control weapons including tear gas, kinetic impact weapons (rubber bullets and similar weapons), water cannons, and acoustic weapons.

The council cited a lack of trustworthiness with these weapons.

The council also banned chokeholds and concealing bad numbers.

it's not just CHOP anarchists who have had enough of the SPD's brutality.

https://q13fox.com/2020/06/15/seattle-city-council-votes-unanimously-to-ban-police-from-using-chokeholds/

So what happens next time rhere is a riot or a demonstration turns violent?
And they take away non lethal weapons, but let the police keep their guns?
I am beginning to smell a anarachist who basically wants no police, period.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

We do know what's going on. People come and go freely. Journalists have reported from within the CHAZ. Ordinary people are sharing their experience online all over. There's no hard border other than a flimsy barricade stopping traffic.

The right wing reporting on the matter is largely a work of fiction and propaganda.

Take for example, Trump, who continues to describe it as a large part of Seattle where protesters are out of control.

Never mind nothing is out of control, Trump has to have been told by now in terms a toddler can understand that this is a tiny dot on a Seattle map. So he continues to lie on purpose.

 

[Babbylonian]

I kinda get the ban on chokeholds. The problem is, they aren't really that dangerous when correctly applied. It's been used in various martial arts for centuries without incident. Hundreds of people are probably choked out every day in gyms across America. Zero deaths. But if they are done with malice, then yes, they can turn deadly.

Evidence? I mean, seriously, how many impossible absolutes and numbers pulled directly from your ass can you sling in one paragraph? Do you not see the wide, wide distance between two people participating in consensual erotic MMA play and what a cop might do (j/k - "will do") to a citizen against their will, a distance so wide that the two things have nothing whatsoever to do with each other?

So I guess my problem is they are looking at the tools and policies, and blaming the violence on those tools and policies and not at the people wielding those tools. The funny thing is the occupiers have that right. But they aren't selling that message. Ironically, it's the same issue I have with gun control. So maybe they should co-op some of those messages.

Assuming people don't forget this **** anytime soon, one could presume that the proposals currently being adopted are only the first steps on a long road that, FSM willing, ends with us not having nearly as many armed cops roaming the streets looking for someone "with warrants" to pad their weekly arrest numbers.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yeah, there is clearly a misinformation campaign going on from the right. Maybe I'm just jaded, or overly cynical, but I don't trust the other side to show the unvarnished truth. They also have a motive to give us a dog and pony show.

I'm not sure the truth can ever be known, but if there is no confirmable harm, then ramping up the troops to restore law and order, in a place that already seems to have order, at least, seems to be a bit too aggressive. As we agree, it will eventually fail. So let it do that. If they have a better way of dealing with some of the uglier sides of human nature, we can learn from it and use it.

Of course, as noted, as a leaderless organization, any one can make up a set of "demands" and have just as much legitimacy and any other list. The one I saw, included (#16) "empty its “lost and found” and return property owned by denizens of the city" To whom, exactly? The problem of ownership is why it's in the Lost and Found I would think. There may be something missing but the demand doesn't really explain the problem. Reading the requirements of reclaiming property to be that onerous. Maybe it's a local homeless thing I'm not versed in, being out of state.

There are example after example of the alt-right promoting a false picture of the BLM protests.

What examples do you have of the BLM people or protesters purposefully doctoring photos, injecting false stories into social media and amplifying them and so on.

Yeah there have been some idiots looting and vandalizing and it's shameful. They are a small minority the news media likes to glom on to. As for this list of demands or that list, whether it is an autonomous zone or an occupy protest, and the stupid repeating phrase "defund the police", those are minor hiccoughs.

Clyburn says 'nobody is going to defund the police,' calls for 'reimagining' of law enforcement

Rep. Jim Clyburn, D-S.C., made it clear on Sunday that despite the public rancor following the protests over the recent deaths of African-Americans involving law enforcement, Congress will not make moves to defund police departments.

Defund messaging only serves as a dog whistle for the right.

Not sure how my belief that everyone in the media are lying (or showing only the facts that fit their pre-determined narrative), is a right wing point. But, then again, I don't watch either media.

So you don't watch the media but you're sure there's equivalency on both sides?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

So what happens next time rhere is a riot or a demonstration turns violent?
And they take away non lethal weapons, but let the police keep their guns?
I am beginning to smell a anarachist who basically wants no police, period.

Things must be bad in Seattle if all 9 city council members are anarchists.

 

[Suddenly]

So what happens next time rhere is a riot or a demonstration turns violent?

The cops will have to find some other way to escalate it?

 

[Giordano]

Not sure how my belief that everyone in the media are lying (or showing only the facts that fit their pre-determined narrative), is a right wing point. But, then again, I don't watch either media.

I believe that the core of the right wing strategy absolutely is to convince the public that the mainstream media is lying to them. That way they can put forward any made-up crap to advance their own agenda without fear of being shot down by the facts. It is essential for Trump to succeed and, for much of the public, it has been successful. If someone can’t be convinced that Fox eg al. are the fountain of truth, at least they can be convinced that there is no place to turn to find the truth.

It is ironic because the mainstream media is largely ..mainstream. It possesses and typically reports news from a very middle class, moderate perspective. IMO there is a modest liberal tone because most reporters come from liberal backgrounds, but most reporters exert an effort to be professional and present as accurate an accounting as they can tell. This subconsciously colors how they report the news a bit, but unlike Fox et al. they do not routinely and intentionally make up stuff for purely political agendas. The result is imperfect but no less so for how they cover the far left as the far right.

 

[EHocking]

I think this particular type of hyperbole probably explains why you think the left leaning media is not warping reality. The idea that people have to ask not to be murdered by police is silly and has absolutely no basis in reality. It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.

472 people shot by police so far in 2020.

Police killed 1004 people in 2019. Black people were 24% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population.

 

[carlitos]

I don’t think that % of population is a fair measure. I want to start a thread on this, once things cool down a little. I have no doubt that it will be catnip to those uninterested in facts, but I’m going to try.