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Split Thread The causes and legality of the declaration of WWII

No, I agree that this would have been a real problem (if it had happened at all). I just think that declaring war to Germany (as the UK and France did, illegally in the case of France, because without a proper vote by both chambers of parliament) wasn't the good answer to this threat. This just led to more violence and a lot of unnecessary suffering for many French, British and Belgian citizens.

It might be argued that the conquest of the American West in the nineteeth century was a problem too (from the point of view of the basic human rights of Indians sent to reservations), but fortunately the British and the French did not try to solve this problem by declaring war to the U.S.A.

A comparison between the Nazis and the U.S. is made in this recent book:
The American West and the Nazi East: A Comparative and Interpretive Perspective
https://www.amazon.com/American-West-Nazi-East-Interpretive/dp/023027515X

Some comments about this book (found on the Amazon webpage):
Challenging and provocative, this well-researched and clearly written account utilizes the cutting-edge approaches of comparative genocide studies to identify what Kakel rightly calls 'disquieting underlying patterns of empirical similarity' in the genocidal policies and practices that flowed from colonial ambitions in the American West and the Nazi East. Kakel's judicious and insightful analysis can withstand the controversies that are likely to swirl around this important book.

Although historians have recognized that the Euro-American colonization of North America inspired the Nazi war for "living space," Carroll Kakel's study is the first sustained and detailed comparison of the American West and the Nazi East. These episodes of territorial expansionism, which combined settler colonialism with the expulsion and killing of indigenous people, occurred at different times and they evinced important differences arising from their specific contexts. Nevertheless, their similarities, among them the obsession with "space" as vital to national survival and the desire to expel or eliminate racial "undesirables" which Kakel demonstrates with rich detail and telling side-by-side comparisons, show conclusively that empire and race lay at the foundations of the American Republic, and that American expansionism became the most important imperialist model for the National Socialists.

First it has been well known for quite sometime that Nazi expansionism ideology owed much to racism and a particular view of American expansion. Also the notion that Eastern Europe was to be Germany's "India". You do realize that the American West and Eastern Europe were quite different from each other. Context means a lot. and your little comment about "if it ...", is amusing. By conquering Poland and instituting his racist policies in Poland Hitler was making it happen. (Check the ration amounts given to various groups in Poland by the Germans in 1939, the genocidal implications are obvious.)

So what that has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me.

And you have been told over and over again, complete with evidence that - "I just think that declaring war to Germany (as the UK and France did, illegally in the case of France, because without a proper vote by both chambers of parliament) wasn't the good answer to this threat.", is totally bogus. And the argument comes from a Holocaust denier who are by definition assumed to be liars until proven otherwise.

You do realize that doing nothing at all in the face of a German invasion of Poland would have discredited the government's of both France and Britain and would have convinced virtually anyone in Europe that British and French promises to help if attacked were meaningless. Also almost certainly the reaction of the countries populations to such behavior would have been, (Especially in Britain), wholly negative to such crap. Chamberlain did in fact try to find a way to get out of declaring war on Germany but his cabinet had had enough of the crap of appeasement and basically forced him to do so.

Once again Hitler could have avoided this by not invading Poland by not being a dick by annexing what was left of Bohemia and Moravia which infuriated both the French and British public along with the Political class in both countries and made them determined to stop him.

A good answer to the threat earlier would have France sending troops into the Rhineland when Hitler sent in troops in 1936. A good response would have been holding fast in 1938, rather than have Munich. (There might have been a coup against Hitler. Thus saving us a lot of bother.)

Both France and Britain had made promises, very serious promises, to Poland. Failure to honour those promises would signal to Europe, very clearly, that neither France not Britain took seriously the security of "small" states in Europe. Hitler has abundant evidence indicates was planning for European hegemony and felt that sooner or later there would be a showdown with Britain and France. He knew damn well, but didn't care very much that invading Poland ran the very high risk of war with France and Britain. He did it anyway and his behavior both during and after ensured that the war would continue. (The liquidation of the Polish state, the attempt to destroy the Poles has a national group, except has serfs in a Racial state.)

What led to more violence was Hitler's unprovoked behavior, lying, deception and cruelty. Before Sept. 1, 1939 both Britain and France had behaved with reckless forbearance; well they had reached their limits.

Oh and just in case your wondering. Why did Hitler invade neutral, Belgium, Holland and luxembourg in 1940? He certainly didn't have to. But he did anyway. And thus Hitler is responsible for any war damage etc., there.
 
First it has been well known for quite sometime that Nazi expansionism ideology owed much to racism and a particular view of American expansion. Also the notion that Eastern Europe was to be Germany's "India". You do realize that the American West and Eastern Europe were quite different from each other. Context means a lot. and your little comment about "if it ...", is amusing. By conquering Poland and instituting his racist policies in Poland Hitler was making it happen. (Check the ration amounts given to various groups in Poland by the Germans in 1939, the genocidal implications are obvious.)

And lets not forget the horrors of the Hunger Plan visited on the Ukraine. But you are of course trying to explain reality to a Nazi, note that I'm deliberately not bothering with the 'neo', and Nazi's don't do reality...
 
Many people (even in Germany and Japan) have adopted the British and American viewpoints on the real responsabilities for WWII.

In my opinion, if the UK and France had not declared war to Hitler in 1939 (even though Hitler wanted peace with them), there would have been a 90% chance he would have attacked neither France nor the UK (if neither of these two countries had showed hostility towards Germany), but only a 40% chance he wouldn't have attacked the Soviet Union.

I believe the Anglo-French decision to attack was a blunder which led to the invasion of France, Belgium and the Netherlands, more deaths, bombing and suffering, more persecution for the Jews, a climate of hate and violence and solved really nothing (at least, in the short term).
One declares war ON another, not TO another.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove breach of rule 12. Please be understanding of those who speak English as a second or third language.


Because until you learn to communicate then there will be no communication.

And I know full well it is intentional. You have quite easily been grammatically perfect in other threads.

No linguistic pretzel logic for you.
 
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First it has been well known for quite sometime that Nazi expansionism ideology owed much to racism and a particular view of American expansion. Also the notion that Eastern Europe was to be Germany's "India". You do realize that the American West and Eastern Europe were quite different from each other. Context means a lot. and your little comment about "if it ...", is amusing. By conquering Poland and instituting his racist policies in Poland Hitler was making it happen. (Check the ration amounts given to various groups in Poland by the Germans in 1939, the genocidal implications are obvious.)

So what that has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me.

And you have been told over and over again, complete with evidence that - "I just think that declaring war to Germany (as the UK and France did, illegally in the case of France, because without a proper vote by both chambers of parliament) wasn't the good answer to this threat.", is totally bogus. And the argument comes from a Holocaust denier who are by definition assumed to be liars until proven otherwise.

You do realize that doing nothing at all in the face of a German invasion of Poland would have discredited the government's of both France and Britain and would have convinced virtually anyone in Europe that British and French promises to help if attacked were meaningless. Also almost certainly the reaction of the countries populations to such behavior would have been, (Especially in Britain), wholly negative to such crap. Chamberlain did in fact try to find a way to get out of declaring war on Germany but his cabinet had had enough of the crap of appeasement and basically forced him to do so.

Once again Hitler could have avoided this by not invading Poland by not being a dick by annexing what was left of Bohemia and Moravia which infuriated both the French and British public along with the Political class in both countries and made them determined to stop him.

A good answer to the threat earlier would have France sending troops into the Rhineland when Hitler sent in troops in 1936. A good response would have been holding fast in 1938, rather than have Munich. (There might have been a coup against Hitler. Thus saving us a lot of bother.)

Both France and Britain had made promises, very serious promises, to Poland. Failure to honour those promises would signal to Europe, very clearly, that neither France not Britain took seriously the security of "small" states in Europe. Hitler has abundant evidence indicates was planning for European hegemony and felt that sooner or later there would be a showdown with Britain and France. He knew damn well, but didn't care very much that invading Poland ran the very high risk of war with France and Britain. He did it anyway and his behavior both during and after ensured that the war would continue. (The liquidation of the Polish state, the attempt to destroy the Poles has a national group, except has serfs in a Racial state.)

What led to more violence was Hitler's unprovoked behavior, lying, deception and cruelty. Before Sept. 1, 1939 both Britain and France had behaved with reckless forbearance; well they had reached their limits.

Oh and just in case your wondering. Why did Hitler invade neutral, Belgium, Holland and luxembourg in 1940? He certainly didn't have to. But he did anyway. And thus Hitler is responsible for any war damage etc., there.
Apologies, Pacal, but I must ask. Are you familiar with Michel H's track record?
 

This is not exactly what I am arguing, but, yes, I believe the 55 millions deaths of WWII could have easily been avoided if the UK and France had not declared war to Germany in 1939
Posted By: Agatha


You are entirely correct, and Winston Churchill agreed with you, calling WW II 'The Unnecessary War', and that is the title of a book by Pat Buchanan that gives the details.

But, noting the moronic nature of the replies I've quickly perused, or let's be generous and call them uninformed, I don't think this is the place to discuss the subject.

There is a WW II forum on codoh.org, also stormfront has a history forum, those are the only places I'm aware of where the standard Zionist narrative is not strictly enforced. And both forums have some very knowledgeable people posting.

In any case, for a quick intro to Buchanan's book see ....
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ALp2GkpcuzZi/

For a funny speech by Hitler that responds to a preposterous telegram from FDR, see ....
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FRTJ5IzO8fR5/

For the uncensored part of a speech by Lindberg on the subject of the US entry ...
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FegCJ4MbAub8/

And the illuminating talk by Rabbi ben Porat on why Hitler hated the Jews
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FegCJ4MbAub8/

The Buchanan book is really the place to start, it is incredibly good.
Posted By: Agatha
 
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One declares war ON another, not TO another. Can you give me your best assessment as to when you will learn anything?

Because until you learn to communicate then there will be no communication.

And I know full well it is intentional. You have quite easily been grammatically perfect in other threads.

No linguistic pretzel logic for you.
I agree that it is common to say in English "declaring war ON another country", but it seems to me the word "on" in this context has a certain connotation of violence that the word "to" doesn't have.

This webpage: https://www.histecon.magd.cam.ac.uk/frontiers/landscape_memory.html
, supported by the University of Cambridge, says:
Mussolini measured the strength of a nation by the number of its bayonets. The inauguration took place on 22 September 1935. Ten days later Mussolini declared war to Ethiopia and started the invasion, which led to Italy's exclusion of the League of Nations and its fatal embrace with Nazi Germany, preparing a repetition of the war of the worlds.
 
I agree that it is common to say in English "declaring war ON another country", but it seems to me the word "on" in this context has a certain connotation of violence that the word "to" doesn't have.

This webpage: https://www.histecon.magd.cam.ac.uk/frontiers/landscape_memory.html
, supported by the University of Cambridge, says:

Are you serious? Wars are violent by definition. If you declare war on someone you are declaring an intention to commit violence on a person, country etc. Talk about sematic petty fogging nonsense.
 
more persecution for the Jews


More persecution? I didn't realize there actually could be any more.

France and England declared war on September 3, 1939. By that point:

Dachau concentration camp opened
A boycott of Jewish shops and businesses started
Laws barred Jews from holding civil service, university, and state positions
Books written by Jews were burned
East European Jewish immigrants were stripped of German citizenship
SS chief Himmler created the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps under the leadership of SS General Theodor Eicke. This move formalizes the SS takeover and centralization of the concentration camp system that had taken place in July 1934.
The Nuremberg Laws were enacted: Jews no longer considered German citizens; Jews could not marry Aryans, nor could they fly the German flag
Germany defined a “Jew” as anyone with three Jewish grandparents or someone with two Jewish grandparents who identifies as a Jew
Jewish doctors were barred from practicing medicine in German institutions
Sachsenhausen concentration camp opened
Buchenwald concentration camp opened
Incorporation of Austria extended all anti-Semitic decrees to immediately apply in Austria
Mandatory registration was required of all property held by Jews inside the Reich
Adolf Eichmann established the Office of Jewish Emigration in Vienna to increase the pace of forced emigration
Germans marked all Jewish passports with a large letter “J” to restrict Jews from immigrating to Switzerland
Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) occured: Anti-Jewish pogroms in Germany, Austria, and the Sudetenland; 200 synagogues destroyed; 7,500 Jewish shops looted; 30,000 male Jews sent to concentration camps (Dachau, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen)
Decree forced all Jews to transfer retail businesses to Aryan hands
All Jewish pupils were expelled from German schools
One billion mark fine was levied against German Jews for the destruction of property during Kristallnacht

And you think a declaration of war by England made that worse?
 
This!

Another thing that someone is very fond of mentioning as a possible strategy.

The one time that there were widespread peacefull protestations against the nazi treatment of the jews (the February strike in 1941), it was beaten down by the nazis.
And the jews were killed anyway!

So much for peacefull protests in the nazi world.
 
You are entirely correct, and Winston Churchill agreed with you, calling WW II 'The Unnecessary War', and that is the title of a book by Pat Buchanan that gives the details.

But, noting the moronic nature of the replies I've quickly perused, or let's be generous and call them uninformed, I don't think this is the place to discuss the subject.

There is a WW II forum on codoh.org, also stormfront has a history forum, those are the only places I'm aware of where the standard Zionist narrative is not strictly enforced. And both forums have some very knowledgeable people posting.

In any case, for a quick intro to Buchanan's book see ....
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ALp2GkpcuzZi/

For a funny speech by Hitler that responds to a preposterous telegram from FDR, see ....
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FRTJ5IzO8fR5/

For the uncensored part of a speech by Lindberg on the subject of the US entry ...
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FegCJ4MbAub8/

And the illuminating talk by Rabbi ben Porat on why Hitler hated the Jews
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FegCJ4MbAub8/

The Buchanan book is really the place to start, it is incredibly good.
:dl:

https://scottmanning.com/content/what-did-churchill-mean-by-unnecessary-war/
 
More persecution? I didn't realize there actually could be any more.

Sadly enough, history proved soon enough that there could be more. As soon as the invasion of Poland started, einsatzgruppen were sent along to start rounding up and shooting Jews in the occupied territories. And in July 1941 Heydrich was tasked with finding a "final solution to the Jewish problem", which was finalized at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942. When basically it was turned from ad hoc pogroms into an industrial-like operation.

So, yeah, if you thought it couldn't get any worse at at the time of the Kristallnacht, hoo boy, it was about to get a whole lot worse.

And you think a declaration of war by England made that worse?

You're presumably not well versed with Adolf's speeches. What Michel does here is basically repeating the propaganda point from 1942 that the world war was caused by the international jewry, and taking it out on the European Jews was somehow the just retaliation for that.

Of course, looking at the causes of it, such as the poor harvests and the decision to kill off "useless mouths" to feed, like, you know, Jews and Slavs, the war wasn't a necessary ingredient there. At most at the next crop failure the same thing would have been discussed anyway.
 
… But, noting the moronic nature of the replies I've quickly perused, or let's be generous and call them uninformed, I don't think this is the place to discuss the subject.

There is a WW II forum on codoh.org, also stormfront has a history forum, those are the only places I'm aware of where the standard Zionist narrative is not strictly enforced. And both forums have some very knowledgeable people posting.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree, looking for a recruit. Michel isn't complaining about Britain and France declaring war on Germany because he hates Jews.

He's complaining because it brought a Nazi invasion of Belgium and he thinks that could have been avoided.
 
Michel isn't complaining about Britain and France declaring war on Germany because he hates Jews.
No, this is not true. I think it is very unfortunate that the Jews, who were already suffering so much (and very unfairly) under Hitler in Nazi Germany, suffered even more after the declaration of war by UK and France, in September 1939, apparently brought the Holocaust, as Hitler had warned in January 1939:
https://www.criticalpast.com/video/...Jews_gives-speech-at-Reichstag_people-applaud
(and, by the way, thank you to Saggy for his post).

I do think, however (we should always think a little about our current time, about 2020), that there is an analogy between U.S. and Israeli policies in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan (and towards Iran) and other countries on the one hand, and Nazi expansionist policies in Eastern Europe on the other hand.
 
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No, this is not true. I think it is very unfortunate that the Jews, who were also suffering so much (and very unfairly) under Hitler in Nazi Germany, suffered even more after the declaration of war by UK and France, in September 1939, apparently brought the Holocaust, as Hitler had warned in January 1939:
https://www.criticalpast.com/video/...Jews_gives-speech-at-Reichstag_people-applaud
(and, by the way, thank you to Saggy for his post).

I do think, however (we should always think a little about our current time, about 2020), that there is an analogy between U.S. and Israeli policies in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan (and towards Iran) and other countries on the one hand, and Nazi expansionist policies in Eastern Europe on the other hand.
I'm sorry if I was ambiguous and seemed to be accusing you when I meant the opposite. Can I make it clear I meant hating Jews is not the reason you oppose France and Britain's declaration of war.
 
No, this is not true. I think it is very unfortunate that the Jews, who were also suffering so much (and very unfairly) under Hitler in Nazi Germany, suffered even more after the declaration of war by UK and France, in September 1939, apparently brought the Holocaust, as Hitler had warned in January 1939:
https://www.criticalpast.com/video/...Jews_gives-speech-at-Reichstag_people-applaud
(and, by the way, thank you to Saggy for his post).

Note that Hitler wanted the Jews out of Europe, and for very good reasons ... but don't take my word for it, take that of Rabbi Josef ben Porat ....
https://www.bitchute.com/video/uKbrffKEyE3m/

From Mein Kampf ....
In this way a few months sufficed for me to learn something which under other circumstances might have necessitated decades of study - namely, that under the cloak of social virtue and love of one’s neighbour a veritable pestilence was spreading abroad and that if this pestilence be not stamped out of the world without delay it may eventually succeed in exterminating the human race.
.......
Now begins the great last revolution. In gaining political power the Jew casts off the few cloaks that he still wears. The democratic people's Jew becomes the blood-Jew and tyrant over peoples. In a few years he tries to exterminate the national intelligentsia and by robbing the peoples of their natural intellectual leadership makes them ripe for the slave's lot of permanent subjugation.

The most frightful example of this kind is offered by Russia, where he killed or starved about thirty million people with positively fanatical savagery, in part amid inhuman tortures, in order to give a gang of Jewish journalists and stock exchange bandits domination over a great people."


Further, there is no evidence linking Hitler to the 'holocaust' but, don't take my word for it, take that of the dean of 'holocaust' historians, Raul Hilberg ...
https://www.bitchute.com/video/I12BCjlgl282/
Elie Wiesel and other survivors sometimes ask, ‘Where was God?’
The German prosecutors, the political scientists, the historians, ask a more modest question - ‘Where was Adolf Hitler?’


Note that any discussion of the 'holocaust' that deviates from the Zionist account will get you kicked off most sites on the internet, and is quarantined on skeptics international, so I've only quoted Jewish sources. For more info consult http://holohoax101.org


I do think, however (we should always think a little about our current time, about 2020), that there is an analogy between U.S. and Israeli policies in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan (and towards Iran) and other countries on the one hand, and Nazi expansionist policies in Eastern Europe on the other hand.

Nazi Germany was not expansionist, which you can discover by reading Buchanan, or just paying any attention at all to the historical record. He did want to reunite the German and Austrian people. The primary thing to note is that Hitler did not want a war with the west, and tried to end the war during the six month 'sitzkrieg' that followed the attack on Poland and preceded the war proper, even agreeing to return most of Poland save Danzig and corridor - https://www.amazon.com/What-World-Rejected-Hitlers-1933-1940-ebook/dp/B00M5K8OEM

The link between Wiemar Germany and the US is striking on many levels ...
https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org/

From Mein Kampf ....
As I listened to Gottfried Feder's first lecture about the 'breaking of interest slavery,' I knew at once that this was a theoretical truth which would inevitably be of immense importance for the future of the German people. The sharp separation of stock exchange capital from the national economy offered the possibility of opposing the internationalization of the German economy without at the same time menacing the foundations of an independent national self-maintenance by a struggle against all capital. The development of Germany was much too clear in my eyes for me not to know that the hardest battle would have to be fought, not against hostile nations, but against international capital. In Feder's lecture I sensed a powerful slogan for this coming struggle.
 
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Nazi Germany was not expansionist, which you can discover by reading Buchanan, or just paying any attention at all to the historical record.

Paying attention to the historical record absolutely proves that Nazi Germany was expansionist - The Sudetenland was never part of Imperial Germany, and the occupation of the rump state of Czechoslovakia really doesn't help with the idea that Germany really was only interested in uniting ethnic Germans. The invasion of Poland, most of which had never been part of either Germany or Austro-Hungary doesn't exactly help you either.

He did want to reunite the German and Austrian people.

Who had never been united, making "reunification" a misnomer.

The primary thing to note is that Hitler did not want a war with the west, and tried to end the war during the six month 'sitzkrieg' that followed the attack on Poland and preceded the war proper, even agreeing to return most of Poland save Danzig and corridor - https://www.amazon.com/What-World-Rejected-Hitlers-1933-1940-ebook/dp/B00M5K8OEM

If he really wanted to avoid a war Hitler could have simply not engaged in activities (namely the invasion of Poland) that he was aware would result in war with the West. Instead, he gambled that he could wage his expansionist war and that the West would acquiesce to his actions. Instead he waged agressive war and ultimately lost.

I'd say that you need to become historically aware, and not a Nazi apologist, but your body of work indicates that you are incapable of both.
 

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