Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Robin]

Yeah and a direct confrontation with neighbors earlier the same month he died, at night, completely blows out of the water any narratives of "oh he thought they were fiendish rogues, racist lynchers, highway bandits, serial killers! He didn't know! He had to assume the worst and start charging and swinging and grabbing at shotguns! It was his one shot at getting out of the situation alive, and tragically... he failed "



Nope. BS all along, and now confirmed as such.



He knew exactly what the dynamic was. Knew he was caught sneaking in there yet again (the frequency with which he went into this place is comical btw, how did this doofus not realize this would eventually catch up with him?) by the neighborhood guys who had already confronted him before, and knew they were agents of getting in trouble - NOT getting murdered / lynched / robbed / tied up and sold into slavery.



Which makes his violent outburst pretty well indefensible. His refusal to face the consequences has landed him in the grave, his family in mourning, and a couple of guys who were trying to look out for the safety and security of their neighborhood - in the ultimate hot seat and possibly prison for a long time.



What a total POS this guy was.

I am not sure why you think this changes the situation. They were hunting him down with guns, how is it unreasonable for him to think that they were trying to kill him?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Okay, alternative scenario: The McMichaels stop him at gunpoint and say "Wait for the cops," and he does, probably forced to his knees. The cops arrive. Arbery didn't steal anything and he has no weapons or any suspicious property with him. The McMichaels, who don't own the house and are not the owner's agents, confess that they chased Arbery down, threatened his life and prevented him from leaving. Who does an honest cop arrest?

If they couldn't nail him and prove he stole anything, he'd probably get cited for trespassing and the McMichaels would probably have been in the clear, with the cops deciding they'd performed a legitimate citizen's arrest on the basis of a reasonable belief that he had been stealing.

Even if you could demonstrate to me that the letter of the law would indicate they had screwed up badly in that scenario and should theoretically get arrested for it, we both know that the police would probably not have done so and I agree with that mentality.

I think it's appropriate for the police, in a scenario like that, to err on the side of cutting slack to the concerned neighbors looking out for their neighborhood vs. the trespasser / likely thief.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I am not sure why you think this changes the situation. They were hunting him down with guns, how is it unreasonable for him to think that they were trying to kill him?

Because he understood their role to be similar to that of a security guard. Many security guards are armed, but no one reasonably believes that a security guard is out to kill them upon approaching them when they have trespassed in the area the guard is assigned to.

 

[Checkmite]

Here's a link to the new video:

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/9Gkx4TX.png[/qimg]

Hey look, it's a whole entire video of a man not taking anything from the construction site.

 

[Robin]

Because he understood their role to be similar to that of a security guard. Many security guards are armed, but no one reasonably believes that a security guard is out to kill them upon approaching them when they have trespassed in the area the guard is assigned to.

He had no reason to believe that people chasing him with guns would be acting in the role of a security guard. I have been a security guard and if I had acted in that manner I would have been sacked on the spot and probably arrested.

Having a gun drawn on an unarmed person who I suspect of a trivial crime would be completely opposite to my role as a security guard.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Hey look, it's a whole entire video of a man not taking anything from the construction site.

I take it if you saw that same dude in the dark of night on your security camera video walking around your back yard, you'd just shrug it off?

"Meh, I see him walking around my back yard... I don't see him murdering my family. Big deal"

 

[Sideroxylon]

I take it if you saw that same dude in the dark of night on your security camera video walking around your back yard, you'd just shrug it off?

"Meh, I see him walking around my back yard... I don't see him murdering my family. Big deal"

This level of disingenuousness is a natural mode in online debate.

 

[Robin]

I take it if you saw that same dude in the dark of night on your security camera video walking around your back yard, you'd just shrug it off?

"Meh, I see him walking around my back yard... I don't see him murdering my family. Big deal"

If I had seen him in my back yard I would have asked him to leave. If I was afraid to do so I would have called the police.

I have already described a situation where my wife dealt with a burglar on our property while I was away, resulting in an arrest and conviction and nobody getting hurt.

I still can't see how you think their actions were in any way reasonable.

 

[Checkmite]

I take it if you saw that same dude in the dark of night on your security camera video walking around your back yard, you'd just shrug it off?

"Meh, I see him walking around my back yard... I don't see him murdering my family. Big deal"

Whose 'back yard'? The invisible family that lives in the not-constructed-yet house?

The property owner that lives - let me check - 90 miles away?

 

[Bob001]

....
Even if you could demonstrate to me that the letter of the law would indicate they had screwed up badly in that scenario and should theoretically get arrested for it, we both know that the police would probably not have done so and I agree with that mentality.
....

I specified "an honest cop." I guess that's too much to hope for.

 

[Bob001]

Hey look, it's a whole entire video of a man not taking anything from the construction site.

Yeah, but he must have been thinking bad thoughts, right?

 

[quadraginta]

Who are you even arguing with here.

McMichaels committed murder because they had no lawful reason to conduct an armed citizen's arrest. In the fight between Arbery and McMichael, the Arbery had the lawful self defense claim.

The McMichaels committed aggravated assault with firearms, and during that aggravated assault, Arbery was shot and killed. Open and shut murder case, even if the Pope did it.

I don't think Skeptic Tank is saying awfully much different than that.

I don't think you've been reading what he's written with any effort to grasp it.

 

[quadraginta]

I think that is down to the old boys network. When you start looking for articles about the area this area’s police and prosecutors you start to find many issues. This article on this particular murder mentions some of the past issues https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/us/glynn-county-police-ahmaud-arbery.html

From the link;

Over the years, Glynn County police officers have been accused of covering up allegations of misconduct, tampering with a crime scene, interfering in an investigation of a police shooting and retaliating against fellow officers who cooperated with outside investigators.

The police chief was indicted days after Mr. Arbery’s killing on charges related to an alleged cover-up of an officer’s sexual relationship with an informant. The chief, John Powell, had been hired to clean up the department, which the Glynn County manager described last fall as suffering from poor training, outdated policies and “a culture of cronyism.”

The Glynn County force was the sort of department where disciplinary records went missing and where evidence room standards were not maintained, leading the state to strip it of its accreditation.

There's all that stuff that ST's been talking about going missing. Just not the stuff he wanted to be looked for.

 

[Checkmite]

Yeah, but he must have been thinking bad thoughts, right?

Well of course, just because he didn't take anything for months and months on video doesn't mean that larcenous, impure thoughts weren't going through his black mind the whole time.

 

[Darat]

I take it if you saw that same dude in the dark of night on your security camera video walking around your back yard, you'd just shrug it off?

"Meh, I see him walking around my back yard... I don't see him murdering my family. Big deal"

On whose video camera?

 

[Ranb]

I take it if you saw that same dude in the dark of night on your security camera video walking around your back yard, you'd just shrug it off?

"Meh, I see him walking around my back yard... I don't see him murdering my family. Big deal"

I have a phone on my nightstand and an AR-15 in my closet. I can get the phone and ask the man what's up. If I don't like the answer, I call 911. If a prowler gets aggressive and threatens me, I have the option of reaching for my rifle.

Seeing a person walking around my back yard is probably never going to result in me chasing him down and killing him in the street. If a prowler can make it out of my yard, I'll let the police deal with him.

I don't think I'll ever call up a posse to join me in stopping a person running from me so I can threaten him with a rifle or shotgun. Simply observing a black person is not actually threatening to me. I wasn't raised that way and I never decided to hate people that way either.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Thank you for taking the time to answer. You are, of course, correct in saying [whatever the case] "he still wound up dead".

FYI, my reason for asking is to gauge how entrenched you and others may be in the "they are racist" argument. No more, no less.

I find your "Oh well I'm just making sure you're not overplaying the race card" thing rather eye rolling, but whatever.

You're hardly the first person in this thread with a "Gotta keep an eye on them dramatic libs to make sure they don't overplay the race card" chip on their should and I must say I can't think of a non-icky way to react to that.

Two white people report "A black guy running down the street" to 911 and 5 minutes later he's dead from two shotgun blast to the chest. Looking at that scenario and going into "Gotta sniff out any over use of the race card!" bloodhound mode over it just seems really, really off to me.

And it's just the "being dramatic is worse then being evil" thing again.

 

[turingtest]

From the link;

​

There's all that stuff that ST's been talking about going missing. Just not the stuff he wanted to be looked for.

And this will be interesting- I mean, as long as we're gonna go poking around in presumably relevant pasts-

For reasons unclear, McMichael’s POST [Peace Officer Standards Training] certification was suspended in February 2019 and he was reassigned to the Camden County District Attorney’s office, about an hour away, and was no longer allowed to work in a “law enforcement” capacity, records show.

“Mr. McMichael will not carry a firearm or badge, nor will he operate any vehicle that would be construed as being law enforcement in nature,” a February 2019 memo signed by Glynn County DA Office Administrator Mark Spaulding said.

When interviewed by Insider last week, Spaulding offered without prompting that investigators in Georgia, unlike other states, don’t have arrest powers. He also said he was otherwise unfamiliar with McMichael’s specific work history.

Just what society needs for its protection- a nitwit who, for some reason, had been told he could no longer carry a gun or badge grabbing one and acting like he still had the other, teaming up with a nitwit son, also armed, to go out and run down a guy who, as far as they had any actual evidence for, was totally guilty of- trespassing.

Yeah- no thanks.

 

[quadraginta]

And this will be interesting- I mean, as long as we're gonna go poking around in presumably relevant pasts-



Just what society needs for its protection- a nitwit who, for some reason, had been told he could no longer carry a gun or badge grabbing one and acting like he still had the other, teaming up with a nitwit son, also armed, to go out and run down a guy who, as far as they had any actual evidence for, was totally guilty of- trespassing.

Yeah- no thanks.

This part of the article was kinda interesting, too.

Two Glynn County commissioners – Allen Booker and Peter Murphy – recently said that responding officers wanted to arrest the McMichaels at the time of the incident, but were blocked by Johnson. “The police at the scene went to her, saying they were ready to arrest both of them. These were the police at the scene who had done the investigation,” Booker told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “She shut them down to protect her friend [Gregory] McMichael.”

Johnson, who eventually recused herself from the case, denied that this ever happened.

 

[smartcooky]

Because, of course, as the NRA says, "an armed society is a polite society"- when you define "polite" as "cowed." You referred to society being soft and needing the protection of idiots like the McMichaelses. Speak for yourself and your society, ok? again, the only protection a decent society needs is from wannabe Judge Dredds like them.

Indeed this! American society was a whole lot more polite when 'dem darned ******* said stuff like "yez mazza" and "thank you mazza"