Jogging in Georgia while black.

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Dr.Sid said:
Are there any news about the burglaries in the area ? I keep hearing they were none.
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Well apparently one of the McMichaels had had guns stolen from his unlocked car.

And then I think there was a claim of one other incident as well.

I think it's a distinct possibility that more things had happened than had resulted in police reports. Ironically, an ex cop might be less likely to report certain things knowing that it had like a zero percent chance of being solved, especially if it was due to a car being left unlocked.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Are there any news about the burglaries in the area ? I keep hearing they were none.
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No there were not, that was only an after the fact excuse offered by the shooters.

The only break-in in the area was a pistol stolen from McMichael's truck back in January.

The whole rash of recent break-ins was never reported to the police.
 
Mike! said:
I really don't like the "he's trapped" narrative. He's only "trapped" if he confines himself to the motorway, which is unfortunately what he did. He's on foot and at least used to jogging, the rednecks are in a truck and a car, plus at least two of the three are fat. He has a clear advantage if he can keep his distance and cut between houses where truck/car can't easily pursue. Why he continued anywhere near the truck is something he'll take with him, and we'll never know.
None of the above offers any excuse for the rednecks to put him in any position that requires flight. They all three need to be facing jail time, as all three participated in this travisty.
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The bogus narrative of the killers cannot be accepted as true.

The released video does not show that the jogger was aware that the McMichaels were armed and waiting for him further away.


It will be noticed that the jogger was running at a slow pace and then suddenly took evasive action moving from the left to the right of the road when one of the McMichaels was seen with a rifle outside on the left side of truck.

It would appear the McMichaels and the video taker may have concocted a story which is not supported by their own video.


Based on the jogger's reaction upon seeing an armed man blocking his path it would appear that that was his first and only encounter with the Mc Michaels before he was executed.
 
dejudge said:
The released video does not show that the jogger was aware that the McMichaels were armed and waiting for him further away.
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My understanding of the pursuers' account of things is that they were along side him for a while before the video starts, asking/telling him to stop and that they wanted to talk to him, maybe they indicated police were on the way also, or maybe he could have easily heard the father in the bed of the truck on the phone with police (I believe he was on his cell in the truck)

If this is correct, then they were in a position to see how he was behaving and reacting up close, and based on his behavior and reactions, combined with having seen him exit the property he was trespassing on, and apparently having seen him on other videos previously or seen him around at the time of other crimes, it may have been 100% obvious to them that he was fleeing / not jogging while oblivious to them.

I think their every action speaks to them having certainty based on their much better vantage point than we have, that this was a criminal fleeing the scene of a crime who didn't want to be held up until police could arrive.

His launching an assault on them when they got out of the truck only serves to confirm that that was what he was.

The idea that he was just blissfully ignorant, jogging along, hadn't even noticed these guys or this truck, only to finally notice them when they were in front of him with guns, is a silly and implausible narrative in the extreme.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
My understanding of the pursuers' account of things is that they were along side him for a while before the video starts, asking/telling him to stop and that they wanted to talk to him, maybe they indicated police were on the way also, or maybe he could have easily heard the father in the bed of the truck on the phone with police (I believe he was on his cell in the truck)

If this is correct, then they were in a position to see how he was behaving and reacting up close, and based on his behavior and reactions, combined with having seen him exit the property he was trespassing on, and apparently having seen him on other videos previously or seen him around at the time of other crimes, it may have been 100% obvious to them that he was fleeing / not jogging while oblivious to them.

I think their every action speaks to them having certainty based on their much better vantage point than we have, that this was a criminal fleeing the scene of a crime who didn't want to be held up until police could arrive.

His launching an assault on them when they got out of the truck only serves to confirm that that was what he was.

The idea that he was just blissfully ignorant, jogging along, hadn't even noticed these guys or this truck, only to finally notice them when they were in front of him with guns, is a silly and implausible narrative in the extreme.
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You and Mumbles need to get together, you are both really good at making up conjectured stories out of whole cloth to suit your world views.
 
Again just like with Guyver and Zimmerman we're going to spend the rest of the time between now and whenever/if ever this things gord to trial and we get an actual verdict watching people see how many paragraphs of fan fiction they can stretch a "We asked the people who shot them if they were justified and they said yes, not really sure what else you expect us to do" narrative into.

If the shooters are the ones that get to decide the narrative, we're essentially doing nothing beyond passing them a notecard that reads "Do you want to be a murderer, check yes or no."

Was the shooting justified? Well we asked the shooters and they said yes.
Was Arbery a suspect in a crime? Well we asked the shooters and they said they thought so.
Who started the confrontation? Well we asked the shooters and they said he did.
And so forth and so on, again doing that thing we go step through step up to the final "Yet another dead black guy" and let the people who killed them decide which version of that step makes them look the best.

Wow it's like killing the black guy so he can't tell his side of the story worked out for them or something. Because at this point the "Mistake of Fact" and "In Mens Rea" fetishists have it so all we can do is ask them if they want to be murderers and if they so no give up.
 
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dejudge said:
The bogus narrative of the killers cannot be accepted as true.

The released video does not show that the jogger was aware that the McMichaels were armed and waiting for him further away.


It will be noticed that the jogger was running at a slow pace and then suddenly took evasive action moving from the left to the right of the road when one of the McMichaels was seen with a rifle outside on the left side of truck.

It would appear the McMichaels and the video taker may have concocted a story which is not supported by their own video.


Based on the jogger's reaction upon seeing an armed man blocking his path it would appear that that was his first and only encounter with the Mc Michaels before he was executed.
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According to the police report, the older McMichael said there was an earlier encounter with the videographer. I believe that was true and is consistent with the video. Arbery knew the videographer was pursuing him and that is why he just didn't turn around and run the other way. He was trapped.
 
At worst, it seems to show Arbery trespassing.
I have certainly been guilty of trespassing at construction sites that were not lived in out of curiousity,
Just the other day I caught an older woman wandering in my backyard looking at construction we have going on - an addition to our home that is clearly occupied.
 
It's sickening that the apologetic narrative is "Oh boy I hope it turns out that the the dead black guy had done something wrong because then it would be okay to kill him."

Arbery's been death for months. Why are they just reviewing security footage now? It's as if they don't really care about any crimes committed when they aren't justification killing a black guy.

So this "crime wave" that justified the McMichaels shooting Arbery didn't justify them reporting the crimes or the crimes being investigated.

It seems nobody gave a crap about this crimes happening until after they shot a black guy over them.

So to any apologists just polishing up the big ole' "gotcha" sign for the eventuality that Arberny was involved in criminal activity... I don't care because it still doesn't matter.
 
whoanellie said:
There is video that seems to show Arbery at the construction site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg8CaecNJI8
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Okay so this is new video. This actually just confirms my perceptions more.

Two things I note in this video:

He is very, very clearly deep inside of a construction area to look for things to steal. That's all he'd be doing in a place like that. He's not just curious about something, taking a look from the outer boundaries of an area - he's deep inside a structure, seeking loot. Anyone who disputes this isn't being honest.

And on a more "nobody's going to agree with me" note here, I want to point out that the guy just straight up looks like a hoodlum.

The "he was out jogging" thing is a lie and a cover story for seeking thief-portunities. Whether it was a lie he told his mom and she parroted, or a lie she made up to paint him in a more positive light, either way it's a lie.

EDIT:

It cannot be overstated how important this video actually is, because it helps establish what mindset he would have had. He knew he had just been deep in the heart of an area, trespassing, and I do believe he drops a hammer or similar tool on the road in the earlier video. I believe he couldn't find anything particularly valuable, especially anything he could easily carry out of there in the daytime (may have thought about returning later if he saw something he couldn't walk out with in the day) but he wasn't about to leave completely empty handed, and he pocketed a couple of small tools, or one at least. Dropped it as they pursued him, so it wouldn't be on him when cops arrived.

The fact that he knew that he had just been trespassing and stealing means that the idea that he was just innocently jogging along is bogus. Total BS as I knew it was. This means that his entire mindset about what these guys wanted / were doing and how he should react to it, is all based on "i'm a criminal that got caught and the cops are on the way" NOT "ho hum, enjoying my jog... oh my! who are these KKK with guns!?!?! better fight for my life!!!"
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
Well apparently one of the McMichaels had had guns stolen from his unlocked car.

And then I think there was a claim of one other incident as well.

I think it's a distinct possibility that more things had happened than had resulted in police reports. Ironically, an ex cop might be less likely to report certain things knowing that it had like a zero percent chance of being solved, especially if it was due to a car being left unlocked.
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In December, another gun theft from someone else's car.

What is it with these Georgian's can't lock their car doors when there are guns inside? Is that not illegal in Georgia?

(In many states, it is illegal to leave a loaded gun untended, as well it should be, because it creates a very easy possibility of a minor ending up with a loaded gun.)

ETA: The information above came from an article I read, but I did not save the link.
 
Meadmaker said:
What is it with these Georgian's can't lock their car doors when there are guns inside? Is that not illegal in Georgia?

(In many states, it is illegal to leave a loaded gun untended, as well it should be, because it creates a very easy possibility of a minor ending up with a loaded gun.)

ETA: The information above came from an article I read, but I did not save the link.
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Georgia state law does not have any specific firearm storage requirements.
 
whoanellie said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z99E6Vq6Hc
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Yep, once again this video (at the 13 minute mark) confirms my perceptions.

He's out "jogging" as a cover story to look for things to steal. He sees this place that's wide open, he checks around while in the front yard to see the coast is clear, then he enters and looks for things to take. This is doubly confirmed by the previous video.

Camera may not have caught it, but he at least pockets a hammer or similar tool that he later dumps on the street so he can claim he has no stolen goods on him when cops arrive.

This is not "Oh i'm Karen out for my jog and oh, isn't this house under construction mildly interesting? Let me gawk at it for a few minutes from the street or possibly outer portions of the lawn" he goes INSIDE the structure, and lingers, searching for loot.
 
One day I hope anything ever makes me as happy as finding out that a dead black guy might have done some criminal act at some point makes a racist.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I would agree, yes.

If he pointed the gun at him prior to Mr. Arbery's physical assault being launched on him, that would constitute a crime per my understanding of Georgia law.
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Very good then. We are agreed on that part. We'll let other people analyse the video and/or witness statements to refute or confirm that a gun was pointed.


Though to be totally honest, if these three civic-minded concerned neighbors, including an ex-cop, recognized him and believed him to be someone who was stealing from the neighborhood multiple times recently - and they were correct
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Seems a bit of an overreach. They believed him to be somebody seen on videotape previously, as confirmed by "Roddy's" phone call, but I don't think the other elements have been verified, nor has it been verified that their belief was correct.

- and he refused to stop when asked/told to after being caught, then I would want to see these men get off free of any consequence even if the one guy did point the shotgun at him to try to get him to stop.
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As I said earlier, if it turns out that he was stealing, or if they indeed recognized him as the person on previous video doing something nefarious, that would change my view of the case and greatly increase my sympathy for the defendants. Even then, I would want them to have some consequence, though. It's very dangerous for armed men to go running around taking the law into their own hands, and it is not something I would want to encourage. Perhaps their suspicions were correct this time, or perhaps we will find that they were not. Either way, I am sure we can find many articles where a well meaning individual thought he was protecting his family or his community, and ended up shooting or killing an innocent person. We could probably search this forum for thread titles that being with "Responsible gun owner....." for examples. I believe the law should have strict limits on how much force may be used by citizens and under what circumstances, and I believe the law should be enforced.



Because ultimately, I just do not feel it is remotely right for law-abiding men trying to protect their neighborhood to end up in jail for years on top of already having been made national hate figures, because they tried to stop a robber victimizing their area by confronting him and trying to hold him until police arrived, simply because that robber made the wildly stupid and reckless decision to attack them.
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At the beginning of your post, you said that if Travis McMichael pointed the shotgun at Mr. Arbery, that would be a crime, in which case at least one them would not be "law abiding men". I suppose we will have to wait for more evidence to determine the truth of that, or of the other claims. So far, the evidence that Mr. Arbery was a robber, or even a burglar, is incredibly thin. The investigation might paint a clearer picture, but it seems that your belief that he was a criminal of any sort may be based primarily on his appearance.
 
whoanellie said:
At worst, it seems to show Arbery trespassing.
I have certainly been guilty of trespassing at construction sites that were not lived in out of curiousity,
Just the other day I caught an older woman wandering in my backyard looking at construction we have going on - an addition to our home that is clearly occupied.
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It's not Criminal Trespass as spelt out under Georgia Law. Walking about an open construction site is not illegal unless you are there for an unlawful purpose, cause damage, or are asked by the owner to leave.
 
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