Biden for President?

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wareyin said:
How well did harping over and over and over about criticisms (legitimate and otherwise) we had with Trump's opponent work out last time? It sure seems like it damaged the cause of defeating Trump.
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What evidence do you have that people criticizing Hillary Clinton caused her to lose? Or is it simply that the risk is too great to the holy cause to permit lese majeste of the anointed one?

Stifling criticism and demanding loyalty is rank tribalism, and if your "side" has to resort to that to win then it doesn't deserve to win.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I don't have the head of CNN's name in my rolodex. Nothing said here is going to stop the media from discussing Biden's numerous shortcomings.
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Like I said, doing everything in your power to assist the party you acknowledge is overtly hostile to your goals is a bold strategy. If it's all the same to you, I'd rather do the stuff that helps achieve your and my goals instead.
 
wareyin said:
Are you having trouble remembering what you typed? I quoted you and everything.
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Ok, that's fair, my snark was a bit unnecessary there.

The right wing is overtly opposed to my goals.

I attack the liberals because they bait the left with good talking points, but never deliver. They are insincere friends, which is more infuriating than an open enemy. They work at cross purposes to their professed values and cannot be trusted.

wareyin said:
Like I said, doing everything in your power to assist the party you acknowledge is overtly hostile to your goals is a bold strategy. If it's all the same to you, I'd rather do the stuff that helps achieve your and my goals instead.
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My goals will never be accomplished until these people are no longer calling the shots for the party.
 
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TragicMonkey said:
What evidence do you have that people criticizing Hillary Clinton caused her to lose? Or is it simply that the risk is too great to the holy cause to permit lese majeste of the anointed one?
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You must be joking.

TragicMonkey said:
Stifling criticism and demanding loyalty is rank tribalism, and if your "side" has to resort to that to win then it doesn't deserve to win.
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Nice catch 22 you've set up. Either you get to do everything in your power (honest or dishonest) to prevent a win, or they don't deserve a win.
 
wareyin said:
You must be joking.
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Nope. She won the popular vote, so all those hurtful things people said obviously didn't have that great an impact. If the populations of the states were distributed differently she'd have won.

Nice catch 22 you've set up. Either you get to do everything in your power (honest or dishonest) to prevent a win, or they don't deserve a win.
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"In your power"? Everyone has exactly the same power: one vote each. You are delusional if you imagine saying things on an internet message board affects anything. Oh noes!!! I pointed out that Biden plagiarized things on multiple occasions!! And that he's got beady little weasel eyes!!! I've destroyed the world!!!

Just go ahead and say it outright: "if you're not for us, you're against us!" The attitude that leads to the state of affairs you're actually complaining about.
 
wareyin said:
Nice catch 22 you've set up. Either you get to do everything in your power (honest or dishonest) to prevent a win, or they don't deserve a win.
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There's always the option of running a candidate who's reputation isn't a pile of flaming trash. Even among the wretched centrist dems this election cycle, Biden was an outstandingly poor candidate.

Many of the most damning criticisms of Hillary just so happened to be entirely true. Unforced errors committed by a deeply flawed individual.

Who thought it would be a good idea for her to go on a Wall Street cash grab speaking tour right before a campaign for election after these people crashed our economy?
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Ok, that's fair, my snark was a bit unnecessary there.

The right wing is overtly opposed to my goals.

I attack the liberals because they bait the left with good talking points, but never deliver. They are insincere friends, which is more infuriating than an open enemy. They work at cross purposes to their professed values and cannot be trusted.



My goals will never be accomplished until these people are no longer calling the shots for the party.
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And so you are better served with another 4 years of Trump? With him appointing more far right judges and justices? With another, bigger tax cuts for billionaires package further increasing wealth inequality? Etc, etc, etc?

The liberals give you most of what you want, but not everything. And so you attack them and help the people who are working to take everything away from you.
 
wareyin said:
And so you are better served with another 4 years of Trump? With him appointing more far right judges and justices? With another, bigger tax cuts for billionaires package further increasing wealth inequality? Etc, etc, etc?

The liberals give you most of what you want, but not everything. And so you attack them and help the people who are working to take everything away from you.
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I hope Biden wins.

Still not going to lie for him. The dude sucks and seems determined to make this easy win a close match.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
There's always the option of running a candidate who's reputation isn't a pile of flaming trash. Even among the wretched centrist dems this election cycle, Biden was an outstandingly poor candidate.

Many of the most damning criticisms of Hillary just so happened to be entirely true. Unforced errors committed by a deeply flawed individual.

Who thought it would be a good idea for her to go on a Wall Street cash grab speaking tour right before a campaign for election after these people crashed our economy?
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It does seem that unless the candidate was St Sanders, the far left was going to run around screaming that they're a flaming pile of trash anyway. And probably even if it was Sanders, too.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Nope. She won the popular vote, so all those hurtful things people said obviously didn't have that great an impact. If the populations of the states were distributed differently she'd have won.



"In your power"? Everyone has exactly the same power: one vote each. You are delusional if you imagine saying things on an internet message board affects anything. Oh noes!!! I pointed out that Biden plagiarized things on multiple occasions!! And that he's got beady little weasel eyes!!! I've destroyed the world!!!

Just go ahead and say it outright: "if you're not for us, you're against us!" The attitude that leads to the state of affairs you're actually complaining about.
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Refusing to admit that people can and do influence how others think about a candidate, a sports team, a brand of tissue paper, a beer, etc doesn't actually change the well known fact that they do. You'll have to do better than that.
 
wareyin said:
It does seem that unless the candidate was St Sanders, the far left was going to run around screaming that they're a flaming pile of trash anyway. And probably even if it was Sanders, too.
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I mean, centrist dems probably would have called him a commie and wrote-in Michelle Obama in the general. it's hard to say. There's no crying allowed in politics.

St. Bernard remains pure as the driven snow, having lost. Now we all look to Biden to seal the deal.

If he wins this thing, he'll probably be remembered quite fondly simply for removing Trump. If he loses, he will be rightly scorned as an incompetent. Running for president sure is a high stakes game!
 
wareyin said:
Refusing to admit that people can and do influence how others think about a candidate, a sports team, a brand of tissue paper, a beer, etc doesn't actually change the well known fact that they do.
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And yet here we are, with Biden as a candidate despite me saying Mean Things about him. However is that possible? According to you, any criticism of the extremely delicate candidate will torpedo his chances.

You'll have to do better than that.
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I'm pretty sure I don't have to do anything. You are fond of ordering people about, aren't you? Is that the leadership style we can expect from your beloved Biden (praise --and only praise-- be upon him)?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
St. Bernard remains pure as the driven snow, having lost.
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That is very much the case. Too many people want a perfect candidate, and since none actually exists they'll never be happy with the actual candidate. Plus it makes it easy to pretend St. Bernard could have performed the magic wand waving necessary to accomplish the goals of the far right while hating the real world candidate who is limited by accomplishing things in reality.

SuburbanTurkey said:
If he wins this thing, he'll probably be remembered quite fondly simply for removing Trump. If he loses, he will be rightly scorned as an incompetent. Running for president sure is a high stakes game!
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Well, Sanders has lost twice now, but he's not scorned as an incompetent. So, there's hope for Biden either way, I guess.
 
theprestige said:
Turns out her electoral model assumed a spherical electorate.
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I don't think failure to predict how the electoral votes will fall is really something to criticize any candidate for. It's one of those things that nobody knows until it happens, and sometimes everybody gets surprised. In hindsight it's easy to say "oh, they should have done X, or Y" but that's hindsight. Going into the final vote I'm pretty sure both sides did everything they could have reasonably done, with the knowledge they had at the time. I don't like Hillary Clinton, and I wish she'd won, but I don't think her losing was caused by anything she did wrong or could have averted. I think it was Captain Picard who said something like how you can make all the right moves and still lose. (Perhaps he was comforting Geordie on striking out with yet another woman.)
 
TragicMonkey said:
And yet here we are, with Biden as a candidate despite me saying Mean Things about him. However is that possible? According to you, any criticism of the extremely delicate candidate will torpedo his chances.



I'm pretty sure I don't have to do anything. You are fond of ordering people about, aren't you? Is that the leadership style we can expect from your beloved Biden (praise --and only praise-- be upon him)?
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Apologies, when I said you'll have to do better I neglected to consider that you might not be able to. You'll have to do better if you expect your argument to be taken seriously.
 
wareyin said:
Apologies, when I said you'll have to do better I neglected to consider that you might not be able to. You'll have to do better if you expect your argument to be taken seriously.
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But I don't expect to be taken seriously. You are the one who imagines everything someone says has an actual impact on elections. Biden is a poopy-head, Trump is a drug-addled gorilla, and Warren is the second coming of Christ. There, I just changed geopolitics forever!
 
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