What Senator John Glenn Said :

Dorian Gray said:
TMY might just be criticizing the people who PUT the troops in the line of fire "from the safety of their own homes, far away, knowing that THEY will never consent to be in the line of fire." I'm trying to think what you are....... something-clown........
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So, unless the commander in chief and/or members of Congress go to the front personally, the war is somehow "unfair".

Nonsense.

First of all, it's not their job. If you want a government of military heroes, you get a government by a military junta. The civilian government controls the military for a very, very good reason.

Second, there is a long tradition in the American congress and white house of service in the military. Both Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. were fighter pilots. Virtually every president (draft-dodger Clinton excepted) was at least a military "vet" if there was a was when they were in draft or military age; quite a few were generals and/or war heroes.

Third, this tradition of service continues today. Quite a few members of Congress, governors, and others were in the military--or had their children in the military.

So your problem is... ?
 
Riddick said:
Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.

In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the

month of January. That's just one American city,

about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't

have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost .

an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.

North Korea never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ..

an average of 18,334 per year.

d. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.

Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ..

an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.

Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three

times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on

multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush

has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled

al-Qaeda, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North

Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who

slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining

about how long the war is taking.

But

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno

to take the Branch Davidian compound.

That was a 51-day operation.
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I bet you received this in an email. This has Urban Legend written all over it.

I will bet you $100 that Glenn never said this. Do you take the bet? No? I didn't think so.

Don't be so gullible.
 
Skeptic said:
So, unless the commander in chief and/or members of Congress go to the front personally, the war is somehow "unfair".

Nonsense.

First of all, it's not their job. If you want a government of military heroes, you get a government by a military junta. The civilian government controls the military for a very, very good reason.

Second, there is a long tradition in the American congress and white house of service in the military. Both Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. were fighter pilots. Virtually every president (draft-dodger Clinton excepted) was at least a military "vet" if there was a was when they were in draft or military age; quite a few were generals and/or war heroes.

Third, this tradition of service continues today. Quite a few members of Congress, governors, and others were in the military--or had their children in the military.

So your problem is... ?
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If we could somehow make it the law of the world that no one under 50 ever has to fight a war, you can bet the world's leaders (including the terorrists) would clean up their acts pretty quickly. Nothing worse than an old man who doesn't hesitate to send young ones off to die.
 
I wonder if we're ever going to get Riddick to admit that the OP was an urban legend.
 
Riddick said:
a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost .

an average of 112,500 per year.
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Although the rest of this list is crap too, this one jumped off the page in it’s elementary historical inaccuracy and show that R should maybe crack a history book.

When we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, we declared war on Japan NOT GERMANY! Germany in what is considered their biggest mistake in WW2 declared war on the US the following day.

If FDR had declared war on Mexico after Pearl Harbor that would have been similar to GWB’s actions,
 
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Diamond said:
I wonder if we're ever going to get Riddick to admit that the OP was an urban legend.
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Gee, he makes an urban legend post, then doesn't respond to the followup...Now what sort of poster does that, I wonder. Says something to draw attention, then disappears. Hrmmm...Wait, I know!

:tr:
 
Skeptic said:
So, unless the commander in chief and/or members of Congress go to the front personally, the war is somehow "unfair".

Nonsense.

First of all, it's not their job. If you want a government of military heroes, you get a government by a military junta. The civilian government controls the military for a very, very good reason.

Second, there is a long tradition in the American congress and white house of service in the military. Both Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. were fighter pilots. Virtually every president (draft-dodger Clinton excepted) was at least a military "vet" if there was a was when they were in draft or military age; quite a few were generals and/or war heroes.

Third, this tradition of service continues today. Quite a few members of Congress, governors, and others were in the military--or had their children in the military.

So your problem is... ?
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My problem is when people use misleading statistics to downplay the deaths of our troops overseas. Really, saying Iraq is safer than Detriot. THats offensive and regoddamndiculous.

As for the tradtion of military service by our leaders........thats a joke in this last generation. Bush Jr. dodged the war. And there was this story about all the big bad neocon hawks and how most of them dodged war/service. Ill see if I can find it.
 
I heard this story on the radio. Heres a small article on neo-con service.

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=2758

"a list of 24 Republicans supporting the Bush invasion includes exactly TWO with any military service: Donald Rumsfeld (1954-57, Navy flight instructor, a time when no wars were being fought) and George W. Bush himself (whose National Guard exploits and evasions are now legendary)."

"The other 22 avoided service entirely, including the biggest sabre-rattlers on the scene today: Dick Cheney, Dennis Hastert, Tom Delay, Roy Blunt, Bill Frist, Mitch McConnell, Rick Santorum, Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, Jeb Bush, Karl Rove, Saxby Chambliss, Paul Wolfowitz, Vin Weber, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Eliot Abrams, Richard Shelby, Jon Kyl, Tim Hutchison, Christopher Cox, or Newt Gingrich"
 
Bush Jr. dodged the war.

Not exactly. He was a pilot. It was Clinton that dodged the war.

If Bush "dodged" the war, then every serviceman who stayed stateside during Vietnam--that is to say, 80% or so of them--also "dodged" the war.

And, by the way, wasn't the war in Vietnam an evil imperialistic agression (etc., etc.) that it was the duty of every good man to dodge in the first place?
 
Skeptic said:
Bush Jr. dodged the war.

Not exactly. He was a pilot. It was Clinton that dodged the war.

If Bush "dodged" the war, then every serviceman who stayed stateside during Vietnam--that is to say, 80% or so of them--also "dodged" the war.

And, by the way, wasn't the war in Vietnam an evil imperialistic agression (etc., etc.) that it was the duty of every good man to dodge in the first place?
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Not every serviceman managed to go AWOL and get away with it, either.

The Viet Nam War wasn't "imperialist aggression"; it was just stupid and self defeating.
 
Offensive rubbish.

"There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.... Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .. an average of 5,800 per year."

Foreigners don't count, do they?
Do they?
 
Skeptic said:
Bush Jr. dodged the war.

Not exactly. He was a pilot. It was Clinton that dodged the war.

If Bush "dodged" the war, then every serviceman who stayed stateside during Vietnam--that is to say, 80% or so of them--also "dodged" the war.

And, by the way, wasn't the war in Vietnam an evil imperialistic agression (etc., etc.) that it was the duty of every good man to dodge in the first place?
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80% of them did not use their family connections to DODGE combat duty. I wonder which poor soul took GW's place on the front line??
 
Mark said:
Not every serviceman managed to go AWOL and get away with it, either.
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Neither did Bush. He was not, at any point, AWOL. Find a citation from his command chain that proves otherwise. He was listed as "failed to show"; which was a completely different situation entirely; with a dramatically different legal standing.

First, he was National Guard, and there are only a few circumstances where AWOL would apply to a Guardsman, not nearly as many as for someone on active duty.

Second, he wasn't qualified to fly at Dannelly Air National Guard base, since he was trained on the F-106, where as Dannelly was F-84 and F-4s. He was put on light duty.

AWOL is a serious offense which can result in court-martial; Failure to Show is a relatively minor administrative infraction.
 
Tmy said:
80% of them did not use their family connections to DODGE combat duty. I wonder which poor soul took GW's place on the front line??
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Well, considering he was a fighter pilot in the National Guard, I'd say... oh... no one.
 
luchog said:
Well, considering he was a fighter pilot in the National Guard, I'd say... oh... no one.
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You assume he would have been a fighter pilot if he didnt have his connections.
 
Skeptic said:
Yup.

Clinton, on the other hand...
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O yeah, that big warhawk Clinton?. He wasnt smart enough to have a Senator for a grandfather. Instead he had to use a loophole designed for rich kids to avoid the war. How dare he!
 
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