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Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned as Stockholm death toll mounts

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dann said:
What is your definition of compliance? It seems to be that if only the citizens accept and obey the commands of the authorities, then there is no authoritarianism. (I don't know what your "" are supposed to imply.)
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Maybe short-term death toll numbers don't scare Swedes into rebellion. Perhaps they are culturally better at seeing long term strategies, even when the immediate landscape may look scary. They could very well be right.

You seem to imply that the Sweden is making obviously stupid decisions and the people follow based purely on blind faith.
 
Elagabalus said:
Nuke the Øresund Bridge from orbit! It's the only way to be sure!!
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I think Norway has armed soldiers at the border to Sweden, which is a pretty unusual step to take in a Scandinavian context. Norwegians visiting Sweden for the Easter holidays were ordered to self-quarantine for 14 days when they returned: Tusinder sendt hjem i karantæne efter "harrytur" til Sverige (Berlingske, April 15, 2020)

But I don't really know if there are any restrictions for people crossing the border between Sweden and Denmark. I haven't considered visiting Sweden recently.
I can see that some politicians are worried about gang members spreading the virus when they cross Øresundsbroen. I guess outlaw bikers aren't too worried about quarantines.
Rigspolitiet bekræfter: Bandemedlemmer kører over Øresund trods grænselukning (Dit Overblik, April 7, 2020)
 
Sherkeu said:
Maybe short-term death toll numbers don't scare Swedes into rebellion. Perhaps they are culturally better at seeing long term strategies, even when the immediate landscape may look scary. They could very well be right.

You seem to imply that the Sweden is making obviously stupid decisions and the people follow based purely on blind faith.
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Yes, more or less. If you read the thread, you'll know. (I don't usually imply much. I tend to say what I mean.)
 
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dann said:
I think Norway has armed soldiers at the border to Sweden, which is a pretty unusual step to take in a Scandinavian context. Norwegians visiting Sweden for the Easter holidays were ordered to self-quarantine for 14 days when they returned: Tusinder sendt hjem i karantæne efter "harrytur" til Sverige (Berlingske, April 15, 2020)

But I don't really know if there are any restrictions for people crossing the border between Sweden and Denmark. I haven't considered visiting Sweden recently.
I can see that some politicians are worried about gang members spreading the virus when they cross Øresundsbroen. I guess outlaw bikers aren't too worried about quarantines.
Rigspolitiet bekræfter: Bandemedlemmer kører over Øresund trods grænselukning (Dit Overblik, April 7, 2020)
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The soldiers are from "Heimevernet", which is a sort of militia that can be mobilized at extremely short notice. Their personal weapons and uniforms are stored at home.

And people going on "harrytur" at this time is the kind of thing that makes me marvel at how blindingly stupid it is possible for some people to be. :(
 
dann said:
Why is it called a "harrytur"?!
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Connotations with the name "Harry" and a low-brow sub-culture associated with it. It's not quite the same sub-culture as loud Norwegians going to Aarhus by ferry to get overly drunk and buy things that are cheaper than in Norway, but related. :o
 
That makes sense, but in Denmark the principle has usually been used by elitist high-school teachers and was reserved for high-school students from the working classes when one specific name had been particularly popular in the working classes for a couple of years. About 30 years ago, it was used to categorize students called Brian, then came Thomas (usually pronounced Dhomas as if by somebody who wasn't very bright), and I think Dennis was in there somewhere as well.
Always elitist! It never happened to names that were popular in the upper classes.

But here is a sketch (2016) about two upper-class twits fantasizing about an epidemic that can wipe out people in the poor neighborhoods of Copenhagen and other parts of Denmark: "Sydhavnen, Nordvest, Lolland-Falster":
 
uke2se said:
ETA: Just to add, I've heard Sweden's response described as relying on herd-immunity. This is not the case. It's not what Sweden is doing. Sweden is and has been operating under the approach that while a majority of the population will be infected, the aim is to increase the time-span so that health services aren't overwhelmed.
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The chief epidemiologist seems to disagree with you and rely on herd immunity:
Tegnell: ”Börjar se effekt av en flockimmunitet” (Aftonbladet, April 16, 2020)
Tegnell: "Beginning to see the impact of herd immunity"
 
A popular TV host has died of Covid-19, 51 years of age:
Adam Alsings sista tid – vännerna berättar (Aftenbladet, April 16, 2020)
And it's one of those lives, that might have been saved by a stricter strategy.
His friends mention that he was probably infected at a party some weeks ago - along with many others.
 
dann said:
A popular TV host has died of Covid-19, 51 years of age:
Adam Alsings sista tid – vännerna berättar (Aftenbladet, April 16, 2020)
And it's one of those lives, that might have been saved by a stricter strategy.
His friends mention that he was probably infected at a party some weeks ago - along with many others.
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That is sad news, especially considering his age. With his job, I'm sure he knew there was some risk, however small, in attending the party.

25 days ago, on March 22, the Swedish PM said:

“We all now have great individual responsibility. There will be a few decisive moments in life when you must make sacrifices, not only for your own sake but also to take responsibility for those around you, for your fellow humans and for our country. That moment is now. That day has come.”

The high schools and universities had closed, gatherings over 50 had been banned, people were encouraged to work from home, and 'at risk' populations told to isolate. The health agency recommended citizens 'avoid unnecessary gatherings'. Businesses remained open, but people were expected to have caution for themselves and others.

So while it is a sad outcome, it was ultimately his personal decision.
 
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Other than all the deaths on the way, the biggest problem I can see with herd immunity is that we don't even know if that's possible. We do know that other coronaviruses only confer immunity for about a year. Unless this one is novel in that regard, then herd immunity simply won't happen.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Other than all the deaths on the way, the biggest problem I can see with herd immunity is that we don't even know if that's possible. We do know that other coronaviruses only confer immunity for about a year. Unless this one is novel in that regard, then herd immunity simply won't happen.
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The problem is that viruses mutate, especially when they're left to run wild.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Other than all the deaths on the way, the biggest problem I can see with herd immunity is that we don't even know if that's possible. We do know that other coronaviruses only confer immunity for about a year. Unless this one is novel in that regard, then herd immunity simply won't happen.
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From my understanding, 'herd immunity' should really be called 'herd resistance' because people can easily be reinfected after a year or so, but at lower levels and often no symptoms. However, as you said, this is only true if this novel virus behaves in a similar way. It should, but it just is not known.
 
Sherkeu said:
So while it is a sad outcome, it was ultimately his personal decision.
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Going to a party? Yes, I guess it was. It was also the personal decision of the infector/infectors who went to that party and infected the other guests. And if going to the party meant that he, Adam Alsing, personally decided to contract it and infect somebody else, then that was ultimately his decision too!
(I.e. you seem to think that those 'personal decisions' affect only the person making them. In this situation, they don't! They affect everybody else the person comes into contact with. By the way, it is far from unheard of that a 51-year-old gets infected, but it's still pretty unusual and unexpected. His personal decision in this case may have been influenced by a delusion that it's a disease that kills the elderly and the infirm exclusively, and since he believed himself to be neither one of those things ... )
 
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CNN (April 14, 2020)
This country isn't enforcing a lockdown. See how it's going:

(Yes, the country is Sweden.)
 
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Weird graphics!

Här sprider sig det nya coronaviruset (SVT.se)

Scroll down to Läget i världen - Utveckling i Sverige och grannländerna.

The numbers appear to be correct, but what are the graphics supposed to illustrate?
Is this a deliberate attempt to make it seem as if Sweden isn't doing so bad in comparison to its neighbors - in spite of the numbers?
 
dann said:
Här sprider sig det nya coronaviruset (SVT.se)

Scroll down to Läget i världen - Utveckling i Sverige och grannländerna.

The numbers appear to be correct, but what are the graphics supposed to illustrate?
Is this a deliberate attempt to make it seem as if Sweden isn't doing so bad in comparison to its neighbors - in spite of the numbers?
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The graphics illustrate a graph of deaths over time. It's meant to illustrate deaths over time. So, the answer to your question is 'no'.
 
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