pipelineaudio
Philosopher
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The pic is fuzzy, but its total deaths. Not deaths per million.
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Cont: 2019-nCoV / Corona virus Pt 3
- Thread starter Darat
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Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
And if there was a line for Canada on that chart it would be slightly above South Korea's.
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
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Many (most?) Chinese authorities are saying it started in China. Definitely not all
https://www.nationalreview.com/news...-s-army-athlete-brought-coronavirus-to-china/
Aside from that, and I know you have mod powers so this may all be deleted in this power imbalance, but I think you know that isn;t really what the post you responded to was saying
""I think it is a coordinated effort from (the) Chinese government to control (the) narrative, and paint it as if the outbreak did not originate in China," the researcher told CNN. "And I don't think they will really tolerate any objective study to investigate the origination of this disease.""
We've seen people arrested over an issue very close to this as well as some who have dissapeared and we still haven't heard from
And lest you accuse me of racism, I am chinese and so is Taiwan!
Thanks.
I’ve been puzzled, for some time, by several inconsistencies in your posts here in this thread. And by what you didn’t respond to.
I’m glad you decided to post what you divined my intentions to be; that fact neatly conforms to a hypothesis I developed.
I haven’t decided yet whether to write more about this, but if I do it’ll surely be in a different board.
In your work editing a scientific journal, how often have you come across use of the word “suppose” to mean something like “assume, for the sake of argument”? FWIW, in discussions with my scientific colleagues, this is common.
A wall of sand bags 5m high and many km long cannot be built in mere minutes (certainly not without a great deal of preparation). For mere floods such a wall might be enough; for a 20m tsunami, not so much.
I’ve been puzzled, for some time, by several inconsistencies in your posts here in this thread. And by what you didn’t respond to.
I’m glad you decided to post what you divined my intentions to be; that fact neatly conforms to a hypothesis I developed.
I haven’t decided yet whether to write more about this, but if I do it’ll surely be in a different board.
In your work editing a scientific journal, how often have you come across use of the word “suppose” to mean something like “assume, for the sake of argument”? FWIW, in discussions with my scientific colleagues, this is common.
A wall of sand bags 5m high and many km long cannot be built in mere minutes (certainly not without a great deal of preparation). For mere floods such a wall might be enough; for a 20m tsunami, not so much.
Ulf Nereng
Muse
I think it's a disinformation campaign aimed (mostly) at the chinese people. Russia did something similar after the shooting down of Ukraine Flight 752. You launch a number of conflicting theories; it was the CIA, religious nutters, neo-nazis, Mossad, 5G, and so on. The more theories, the better! Many people will be predisposed to believe one or the other, so fewer fingers are pointed at the government. None of it is official, just theories floated by different people. They must be allowed to have their opinions, right? Freedom of speach and all that.
And eventually many just settle on "I don't know what to think", which for the perpetrator is better than people understanding that you screwed up.
For many governments, public uncertainty due to misinformation is far preferable to public action guided by actual events.
The source for some of what's been posted here in this thread and its ancestors is personal experience.
Some has been scientific papers, including not-yet-peer-reviewed preprints.
Some has been one or another government's leader, spokesperson, official agency website, etc (including that of the WHO).
The JHU's Worldmeter, and other non-official compilations (e.g. The COVID Tracking Project) are yet other sources; data from these is based on data from sources such as the New York state site (NYSDOH COVID-19 Tracker).
Some sources are not quite as reliable or obvious*.
And so on.
Often sources are mentioned (though sometimes rather obliquely); often they are directly cited (almost always with a URL).
Perhaps the most common sources are the (mainstream) media: BBC, New York Times, Australia's ABC, Hong Kong's South China Morning Post, and so on.
A rather long article in today's Vox, by Peter Kafka, is very informative with regard to this last: "What went wrong with the media’s coronavirus coverage?" (link). Here we have a mainstream journalist examining the covid-19 coverage in (US) mainstream media, being apparently honest about the sources they use (e.g. the CDC, various relevant health experts), and what they don't (e.g. actual papers, though sometimes do).
It's little wonder that we ourselves, here in the SMM&T board of the ISF, sometimes get into heated discussions!
Take this para, for example:
"The same was true for a much-discussed Recode piece from February 13 that looked at the way Silicon Valley was responding to the virus. That story relied on information from the CDC as well as an infectious disease physician at Stanford Health Care, who said that “the chances are astonishingly low that you would come into contact with a coronavirus infection” at work or in a public setting. Building on those interviews, it repeated the argument that “the fact remains that, so far, the flu has impacted far more people.” Though true at the time, this clearly missed where the virus was headed."
Peter saved the best for last:
"The truth is, there’s no good answer to this. You can be as diligent about your sourcing as possible and still get it wrong if the experts you talk to get it wrong. And you can err on the side of not scaring people, when scaring people into action may be the only thing that saves their lives. I don’t know that we’ll do better next time, and we may just have to live with it — no matter how early the warnings are.
Let’s end by traveling back in time to January 27, to watch an exchange you probably didn’t see when it aired: CNBC’s Brian Sullivan interviewing former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt, who was also the head of the Department of Health and Human Services from 2005 to 2009." Read the transcript extract which follows, are you quaking in your boots?
*For example, we had a reposting, under a different name, of material from well-known conspiracy theorist Alex Jones
Some has been scientific papers, including not-yet-peer-reviewed preprints.
Some has been one or another government's leader, spokesperson, official agency website, etc (including that of the WHO).
The JHU's Worldmeter, and other non-official compilations (e.g. The COVID Tracking Project) are yet other sources; data from these is based on data from sources such as the New York state site (NYSDOH COVID-19 Tracker).
Some sources are not quite as reliable or obvious*.
And so on.
Often sources are mentioned (though sometimes rather obliquely); often they are directly cited (almost always with a URL).
Perhaps the most common sources are the (mainstream) media: BBC, New York Times, Australia's ABC, Hong Kong's South China Morning Post, and so on.
A rather long article in today's Vox, by Peter Kafka, is very informative with regard to this last: "What went wrong with the media’s coronavirus coverage?" (link). Here we have a mainstream journalist examining the covid-19 coverage in (US) mainstream media, being apparently honest about the sources they use (e.g. the CDC, various relevant health experts), and what they don't (e.g. actual papers, though sometimes do).
It's little wonder that we ourselves, here in the SMM&T board of the ISF, sometimes get into heated discussions!
Take this para, for example:
"The same was true for a much-discussed Recode piece from February 13 that looked at the way Silicon Valley was responding to the virus. That story relied on information from the CDC as well as an infectious disease physician at Stanford Health Care, who said that “the chances are astonishingly low that you would come into contact with a coronavirus infection” at work or in a public setting. Building on those interviews, it repeated the argument that “the fact remains that, so far, the flu has impacted far more people.” Though true at the time, this clearly missed where the virus was headed."
Peter saved the best for last:
"The truth is, there’s no good answer to this. You can be as diligent about your sourcing as possible and still get it wrong if the experts you talk to get it wrong. And you can err on the side of not scaring people, when scaring people into action may be the only thing that saves their lives. I don’t know that we’ll do better next time, and we may just have to live with it — no matter how early the warnings are.
Let’s end by traveling back in time to January 27, to watch an exchange you probably didn’t see when it aired: CNBC’s Brian Sullivan interviewing former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt, who was also the head of the Department of Health and Human Services from 2005 to 2009." Read the transcript extract which follows, are you quaking in your boots?
*For example, we had a reposting, under a different name, of material from well-known conspiracy theorist Alex Jones
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
One modest proposal. We start injecting children with the virus and isolate them for two weeks. Their survival rate is much higher than that of the rest of the community. Over time the herd immunity will develop and we can go back to our normal lives till a vaccine is developed.
sir drinks-a-lot
Philosopher
That's just an artifact of the fact that the populations are so different.
Ulf Nereng
Muse
linky?
Ulf Nereng
Muse
Or this: Declare a War on the Virus and conscript everybody below the age of 44. It'll be a one month campaign where all the conscripts are injected. This will weed out the weaklings, too! Elite conscripts can volunteer for FEMA's Vaccination Research Project and possibly get medals for their heroism (posthumous or not)!
The Atheist
Psychopath
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- Jul 3, 2006
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I have no doubt there will be massive numbers of lives saved through pollution reduction, and that's one that should be easy to tell at the end of the outbreak.
There are all sorts of studies like that waiting to be done. From road crashes causing deaths and serious injuries, to domestic violence increases, the disease will provide sociologists with work for the next decade.
Way to cover the bases! That's one in the coffin, bolted shut and cremated.
I still haven't seen a burst of infections in your part of the world. Daily increase is down to 3.5% over the past four days.
Stopped due the number of deaths on high doses is the claim, so only proves it's dangerous, and also not quite the same as hydroxychloroquine: https://thehill.com/policy/internat...opped-after-irregular-heart-beats-detected-in
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
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https://thehill.com/policy/internat...opped-after-irregular-heart-beats-detected-in
I don't think this will say quite what the politically motivated want it to say
""Preliminary findings suggest that the higher CQ dosage (10-day regimen) should not be recommended for COVID-19 treatment because of its potential safety hazards," the study's abstract said. "Such results forced us to prematurely halt patient recruitment to this arm.""
G'day mate!
You ought to look at the land down under... Antartica.
UK |167 | 5416 |3.08%
USA | 69 | 8651 |0.80%
Australia | 2 |14201 |0.01%
The good news: I pushed my way the crowds at the store and snagged on the last remaining six pack of toiled paper.
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The first place where covid-19 started wrecking havoc is Wuhan, Hubei, China.
There are a lot of people who are from there but who now live somewhere else. Or, while not themselves living in Wuhan, have family members who are.
Lombardy, Italy is commonly regarded as ground zero for covid-19 in Italy*. As with Wuhan, there are a lot of people from there but who now live elsewhere.
Is COVID-19 Changing How We Measure Distance? is an NPR article about a couple - she from Wuhan, he Lombardy, now living in suburban Connecticut - and what the last few months have been like for them.
An example:
"Federico and Liying suddenly found it easy to agree on things — like pulling their younger child out of day care, or forbidding both their children from going to playgrounds, weeks before anyone around them did the same. "That's part of the loneliness, or isolation feeling," Federico says, "going through something and not having the support or even understanding from people around you." It disappointed him that his friends and neighbors in Connecticut were still acting like the new coronavirus was a faraway problem, but he understood that "you give more importance to facts and circumstances that touch you personally." After all, hadn't he done the same, just weeks earlier?"
I'm sure a lot of people living in "the tri-state area" (the US' current covid-19 hotspot, death toll north of 12,000) can now appreciate much better Liying and Federico's experience. Let's hope that those in Omaha, Nebraska never have to.
*According to WP, it was first detected in Rome, in two Chinese tourists, with the third case being an Italian repatriated from Wuhan. Next came the Lombardy cluster.
There are a lot of people who are from there but who now live somewhere else. Or, while not themselves living in Wuhan, have family members who are.
Lombardy, Italy is commonly regarded as ground zero for covid-19 in Italy*. As with Wuhan, there are a lot of people from there but who now live elsewhere.
Is COVID-19 Changing How We Measure Distance? is an NPR article about a couple - she from Wuhan, he Lombardy, now living in suburban Connecticut - and what the last few months have been like for them.
An example:
"Federico and Liying suddenly found it easy to agree on things — like pulling their younger child out of day care, or forbidding both their children from going to playgrounds, weeks before anyone around them did the same. "That's part of the loneliness, or isolation feeling," Federico says, "going through something and not having the support or even understanding from people around you." It disappointed him that his friends and neighbors in Connecticut were still acting like the new coronavirus was a faraway problem, but he understood that "you give more importance to facts and circumstances that touch you personally." After all, hadn't he done the same, just weeks earlier?"
I'm sure a lot of people living in "the tri-state area" (the US' current covid-19 hotspot, death toll north of 12,000) can now appreciate much better Liying and Federico's experience. Let's hope that those in Omaha, Nebraska never have to.
*According to WP, it was first detected in Rome, in two Chinese tourists, with the third case being an Italian repatriated from Wuhan. Next came the Lombardy cluster.
pipelineaudio
Philosopher
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As it was pretty clear I was responding to a US vs UK (or so I hope it was), option C (where I would gladly hang out in herpetological heaven NOWHERE NEAR anyone else) was not on the table
TellyKNeasuss
Illuminator
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It looks like they were giving the "higher CQ dosage" group more than double the recommended dosage for malaria patients.
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
What's so different about Canada's population that it would scarcely register on that graph vs the USA which is practically going into the stratosphere?
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