As in all other parts of the world, when the virus has been introduced into a country by rich people returning from holidays in infected areas, poor people will suffer disproportionally as it spreads to them. At the beginning of the epidemic in Denmark, the number of infections was highest in the affluent neighborhoods, but at this point it seems to have spread to the municipalities with the highest number of immigrants as well while the rich people are either working from home or escaping to their second homes, infecting new populations - or sometimes combining both options.
Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned as Stockholm death toll mounts
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As in all other parts of the world, when the virus has been introduced into a country by rich people returning from holidays in infected areas, poor people will suffer disproportionally as it spreads to them. At the beginning of the epidemic in Denmark, the number of infections was highest in the affluent neighborhoods, but at this point it seems to have spread to the municipalities with the highest number of immigrants as well while the rich people are either working from home or escaping to their second homes, infecting new populations - or sometimes combining both options.
angrysoba
Philosophile
I don't know about that. I keep getting directed to the same National Review Online article that praises this strategy by people who ask, "Why can't we be like Sweden instead of being locked down!?"
The article is four days old though, and about one hundred people have died every day since it came out.
I would say that is the reason why the article doesn't persuade me, not jealousy.
One hundred people a day, that is considerably fewer than in Sweden. The problem is that when a lockdown starts, it takes some time until the people who have already been infected stop being hospitalized and dying. It takes a couple of weeks to become noticeable in the number of hospitalizations and deaths.
Take a look at the three graphs: Indlagte på danske hospitaler = Hospitalizations in Denmark: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2020-02-27-nyeste-corona-tal-fra-danmark-og-verden-saa-mange-er-smittede-doede-og-indlagte (TV2, April 10, 2020)
The three graphs show: 1) total number of coronavirus patients hospitalized, 2) those in intensive care and 3) those on respirators/ventilators.
And the next one, Dødsfald I Danmark = Deaths in Denmark, in total and day by day.
Lockdowns work, but they should have been implemented much sooner.
In the meantime, you hear insane arguments like, 'OK, så old people are dying, but that is not because we don't have a lockdown, that's just due to "a more or less complete lack of protective equipment."'
I don't know what the hell people like this think is supposed to happen during a lockdown!
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Meanwhile:
Coronaviruset stoppar cellprovtagningar i flera regioner (SVT.se, April 10, 2020)
Professorn om pausade cellprov: “Det är ett jätteproblem” (SVT.se, April 10, 2020)
Coronaviruset stoppar cellprovtagningar i flera regioner (SVT.se, April 10, 2020)
Professorn om pausade cellprov: “Det är ett jätteproblem” (SVT.se, April 10, 2020)
PhantomWolf
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Yup, we're into week 3 (of lock down) here now, and our active cases have dropped or remained steady for the past 4 days and the number of cases per day have halved since last week. As of today we had 1,283 cases, 44 new cases and 56 reported recoveries making 373 recoveries, with just 2 deaths so far. We've done around 35,000 tests.
Yeah this makes me quite mad, I work in a care village, and it's possible to lock it down as long as people are sensible and follow the rules even without PPE.
Why? Do you think the information reported was inaccurate?
Or do you think they were implying that 19 deaths accounted for most of the releases from the hospital, over a time period when no new hospitalizations nor releases for reasons other than deaths were taking place?
And as of this post, the USA (51 per million) now has more confirmed deaths per capita than Norway (20 per million). The USA also has 466.299 confirmed cases of coronavirus infections, Norway has 6.219, and since hardly anybody in the USA is being tested, not even people who suspect that they've come down with Covid-19, it is fair to assume that millions of Americans are now infected.
What do those numbers tell you, Baylor?
They tell me that Norway is doing its best to test and then isolate as many as possible, and that the USA is headed by a lying, unscrupulous dimwit.
Nyeste corona-tal fra Danmark og verden: Så mange er smittede, døde og indlagte (TV2, April 10, 2020)
No, those numbers are pretty reliable.
Yes. You do the numbers: 20 minus 19. It is possible that one or two of the patients to die were never hospitalized, but it's not very likely.
Doctors in Sweden receive a letter telling them how to distinguish between coronavirus patients, i.e. which patients won't receive intensive care if hospitals run out of hospital beds in intensive-care units:
Dokument sendt til læger: Sverige forberedt på at prioritere mellem coronapatienter (TV2, April 10, 2020)
Dokument visar: De prioriteras bort från intensivvård (Aftonbladet, April 10, 2020)
Yes. I wish it weren't so.
Dokument sendt til læger: Sverige forberedt på at prioritere mellem coronapatienter (TV2, April 10, 2020)
Dokument visar: De prioriteras bort från intensivvård (Aftonbladet, April 10, 2020)
Yes. I wish it weren't so.
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angrysoba
Philosophile
No, that is Sweden!
Yes, I think you are right. But how much is Japan?!
ETA: Japan has only 99 deaths??? Amazing! People can't appreciate their grandparents much if they want to abandon the Japanese strategy in favor of the Swedish way of doing things.
ETA: Japan has only 99 deaths??? Amazing! People can't appreciate their grandparents much if they want to abandon the Japanese strategy in favor of the Swedish way of doing things.
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Translation (I'm not as fluent in Swedish as in Danish, dann):
On the day when Anders Tegnell said that the spread of the virus was "evening out," more new cases than ever were registered.
There is still a high degree of contamination in the Swedish capital, the region says.
- Just when the Health Authority made its statement, I didn't really feel that I had the same impression, Per Folin, MD of infections.
Region Stockholm: To early to talk about flattening of the curve: Recommends having Easter lunches June 5 to 7 instead
The top advisor on Covid-19 in Sweden, Anders Tegnell, appears to be playing the pandemic down much like Trump.
uke2se
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I suppose the only thing I can say is that Sweden isn't going to drastically change course. We might (and probably will) increase restrictions incrimentally as things get worse, but we're not going to lock down the country tomorrow. If the strategy that the government has chosen turns out to be wrong when all accounts are tallied after the crisis is complete, there will be a reckoning. Until then, we'll keep doing our thing.
I work for the government, and our department has presented an internal plan of action should the infected cases increase dramatically in our region. Step one is to send home people who are identified as having increased risk - other diseases, smokers, obese people etc. They would work from home. The next step is to have a skeleton crew manning posts and only perform absolute necessary tasks. The last step is a closing of the department. Every escalation is dependent on advice from Folkhälsomyndigheten (Department of Public Health). Right now, if anybody has mild symptoms they stay home under quarantine. Otherwise, it's business more or less as usual, although that is certainly not quite true.
There are much fewer people out an about than normal. Businesses are taking measures to avoid crowding. Went shopping for wine yesterday and had to queue outdoors, two meters behind one person and two in front of the next. People are following the rules as best they can. There's no real siege mentality yet, but there's certainly tension in the air.
I work for the government, and our department has presented an internal plan of action should the infected cases increase dramatically in our region. Step one is to send home people who are identified as having increased risk - other diseases, smokers, obese people etc. They would work from home. The next step is to have a skeleton crew manning posts and only perform absolute necessary tasks. The last step is a closing of the department. Every escalation is dependent on advice from Folkhälsomyndigheten (Department of Public Health). Right now, if anybody has mild symptoms they stay home under quarantine. Otherwise, it's business more or less as usual, although that is certainly not quite true.
There are much fewer people out an about than normal. Businesses are taking measures to avoid crowding. Went shopping for wine yesterday and had to queue outdoors, two meters behind one person and two in front of the next. People are following the rules as best they can. There's no real siege mentality yet, but there's certainly tension in the air.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Yeah, but I realize my posts may be confusing.
To explain, a lot of people wanting to follow the Swedish model are friends of mine in the UK, Canada, NZ etc...
Here in Japan, we have only just started implementing a state of emergency in Osaka and Tokyo and a few other prefectures. One person who sent me that link does have a pub in Osaka which he has just shut for the duration of the state of emergency. Other pubs and restaurants are being strongly encouraged to do the same. That said, a lot of other non-essential businesses like Pachinko parlours seem to be going on as before. Most shops are still open, the hairdresser's across from me are open.
It's true that the schools have been closed since the end of February in these prefectures, but in other places the schools are opening up again.
On top of that, rush hour is continuing pretty much as before with crowded trains and people simply going to work even if they live in Osaka and work in Kyoto.
It's quite a mystery why there has not been an explosion of deaths in Japan yet.
Well if the forums amateur epidemiologists recommendations are anything to go by the best way is simply to copy the countries doing well without even considering wheter the situations are even similar. If Japan does something and it is working (at least for the moment) then obviously it must have the same effect here.
Who cares what experts, with an intimate picture of what is feasible, think? They are COMPLETE IDIOTS. You don't even need to take a basic introductory university course in biology to see that it's obvious, based on this graph I just saw on facebook, that we must rally to the great Japanese way immediately!
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I seem to have offended our resident Swedish virus expert. The Swedish primeminister seems to disagree with him:
In an interview in Swedish Television's (SVT) holiday studios on the morning of Easter Night, primeminister Stefan Löfven says that Sweden could have been better prepared for the pandemic.
- We were not sufficiently prepared. That is obvious to everybody.
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (SVT.se, April 11, 2020)
This time, Trump is actually right about one thing:
Conditions in the USA could have been much worse if the Swedish model had been adopted. Conditions are worse in Sweden!
Sverige
Deaths: 870
Deaths per million: 87
USA
Deaths: 18.777
Deaths per million: 57
My translation:
In an interview in Swedish Television's (SVT) holiday studios on the morning of Easter Night, primeminister Stefan Löfven says that Sweden could have been better prepared for the pandemic.
- We were not sufficiently prepared. That is obvious to everybody.
Senaste nytt om coronaviruset (SVT.se, April 11, 2020)
This time, Trump is actually right about one thing:
Conditions in the USA could have been much worse if the Swedish model had been adopted. Conditions are worse in Sweden!
Sverige
Deaths: 870
Deaths per million: 87
USA
Deaths: 18.777
Deaths per million: 57
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But a reckoning doesn't really help anybody. It may help another politician get elected to replace the current PM, but that's about it.
Unfortunately, that doesn't help much:
Translation:
11 international research studies show that people without symptoms infect others to a considerable degree. Danish as well as international top scientists have told the paper (Berlingske) that it is well-documented that people without symptoms can transmit the disease to others.
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You forgot to mention that I'm a communist, but apart from that, your post is consistent with your previous contributions to this thread.
Do people wear masks? When hairdressers open up again in Denmark (and I could do with a haircut by now!
), I think they will be expected to wear masks - and wash their hands a lot.angrysoba
Philosophile
Do people wear masks? When hairdressers open up again in Denmark (and I could do with a haircut by now!
Looking out my window, I'd say about close to 90% of people cycling past are wearing masks.
Yeah, I think hairdressers and others do too.
Still, a bit hard to eat dinner while wearing a mask.
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