Cont: 2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part IV

[wareyin]

Weimar Joe 2020! Put all those populist grievances on the back burner and really let the flavors simmer and meld.

Edit: This is of course assuming that "electable" Joe actually manages to win, which I have very little confidence one way or the other.

I know you're very infatuated with this analogy, but I honestly can say I really don't understand what point you're trying to make here anymore. Care you re-establish the analogy here and explain it?

You are actively working against the candidate closest to your ideals, and so working for the candidate who is furthest from your ideals. When one is aware of the reality that it's going to be Trump or Biden who is the next President, and they work against Biden, it's like a vegan who would prefer veal instead of big farm grown kale.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I know you're very infatuated with this analogy, but I honestly can say I really don't understand what point you're trying to make here anymore. Care you re-establish the analogy here and explain it?

You walk into a restaurant.

"Welcome to RestaurantPlace. What can I get for you today?"
"Hi. I'm a vegetarian. I'd like the gluten free, organic, hydroponically grown spinach please."
"Oh I'm sorry all we have is regular spinach."
"Regular spinach? REGULAR SPINACH!? No, no... totally unacceptable. Regular spinach is no better than meat. If you don't have gluten free, organic, hydroponically grown spinach, I guess I'll just eat the meat. Not even the meat, I'm having the veal!"

And then you start walking around the restaurant berating the other vegetarians for "settling" for the normal spinach instead of your hypothetically perfect spinach that wasn't on the menu.

"I am incapable of making a distinction between better and perfect and anything that isn't perfect is the same thing as being totally wrong."

You're one of the people on House Hunters on HGTV. "Well this house has the perfect layout, perfect location, is within our price range... but the kitchen walls are a slightly darker shade of blue then I would like so I won't even consider it."

 

[JoeMorgue]

This is of course assuming that "electable" Joe actually manages to win, which I have very little confidence one way or the other.

Which is why Sanders losing the nomination is the best thing to his mystique to his followers, it will allow them to maintain the illusion that he would have won had he got the nomination.

The longer he stays untested, the longer he's unbeatable.

 

[theprestige]

Haha oh wow. Even I don't think Trump is veal.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You walk into a restaurant.

"Welcome to RestaurantPlace. What can I get for you today?"
"Hi. I'm a vegetarian. I'd like the gluten free, organic, hydroponically grown spinach please."
"Oh I'm sorry all we have is regular spinach."
"Regular spinach? REGULAR SPINACH!? No, no... totally unacceptable. Regular spinach is no better than meat. If you don't have gluten free, organic, hydroponically grown spinach, I guess I'll just eat the meat. Not even the meat, I'm having the veal!"

And then you start walking around the restaurant berating the other vegetarians for "settling" for the normal spinach instead of your hypothetically perfect spinach that wasn't on the menu.

"I am incapable of making a distinction between better and perfect and anything that isn't perfect is the same thing as being totally wrong."

You're one of the people on House Hunters on HGTV. "Well this house has the perfect layout, perfect location, is within our price range... but the kitchen walls are a slightly darker shade of blue then I would like."

A vegan walks into a restaurant and sees that there are only meat options on the menu. The waiter tries to talk the vegan into staying and trying the dishes. The waiter explains that while they are still meat, they are cage-free, free-range, humanely raised animals that live much better lives than the typical factory-farmed animal.

The vegan begrudgingly acknowledges that humanely raised meat animals are preferable to factory farmed animals, but still just goes home and has a peanut butter sandwhich. The humane meat restaurant goes out of business and is replaced by a steak restaurant that doesn't care about animal welfare at all.

Are we going to talk about pointless analogies all day?

Biden is better than Trump. I prefer Biden to Trump. I will sing it from the rooftops if you like.

He still sucks, and he won't fix any of the glaring problems in our politics. If anything, he'll just discourage liberal voters into thinking that good things aren't possible.

How about you answer my question? Will you be happy when it's a Democrat running kinder, gentler concentration camps at the border?

 

[wareyin]

Haha oh wow. Even I don't think Trump is veal.

More like meat from a baby seal killed by bludgeoning it while forcing it to watch K-Pop?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Which is why Sanders losing the nomination is the best thing to his mystique to his followers, it will allow them to maintain the illusion that he would have won had he got the nomination.

The longer he stays untested, the longer he's unbeatable.

It's a high stakes game, winning the nomination. Silver lining of 2016 is that Hillary went away forever, so that's something. Hope Joe is ready for 2020.

 

[wareyin]

A vegan walks into a restaurant and sees that there are only meat options on the menu. The waiter tries to talk the vegan into staying and trying the dishes. The waiter explains that while they are still meat, they are cage-free, free-range, humanely raised animals that live much better lives than the typical factory-farmed animal.

The vegan begrudgingly acknowledges that humanely raised meat animals are preferable to factory farmed animals, but still just goes home and has a peanut butter sandwhich. The humane meat restaurant goes out of business and is replaced by a steak restaurant that doesn't care about animal welfare at all.

Hmmm, this one has good beginnings. Hows about we add in the relevant bits where the vegan completely ignores several vegetarian options on the humane restaurant menu? And then the vegan cheers on the steak restaurant that doesn't care, saying it's actually better than the humane restaurant? Or then asks stupid questions about how people will feel if the cage-free restaurant still uses cages?

 

[wareyin]

Which is why Sanders losing the nomination is the best thing to his mystique to his followers, it will allow them to maintain the illusion that he would have won had he got the nomination.

The longer he stays untested, the longer he's unbeatable.

It's probably why they aren't even voting for him in the primaries. Don't want to risk it.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Hmmm, this one has good beginnings. Hows about we add in the relevant bits where the vegan completely ignores several vegetarian options on the humane restaurant menu? And then the vegan cheers on the steak restaurant that doesn't care, saying it's actually better than the humane restaurant? Or then asks stupid questions about how people will feel if the cage-free restaurant still uses cages?

What are we actually talking about here?

Is there some lunatic fringe of Bernie supporters who actually like Trump over Biden? Maybe, but if there are, not in substantial numbers. Likewise those who will stay home out of spite.

What do you see as the biggest barriers to a Biden victory? Surely you cannot believe that some lunatic fringe of Bernie dead-enders are a significant factor.

I see voter malaise, largely due to selecting an entirely uninteresting candidate, as a much greater danger. I see a candidate that can have the Iraq war rightfully thrown in his lap as a liability among voters exhausted with military adventurism. I see a candidate totally captured by big business and unwilling to speak plainly and directly to the woes of working people as a liability.

Trump will fire up his BS populist message again and it will beat Biden bloody just as it did Clinton.

 

[wareyin]

What are we actually talking about here?

Is there some lunatic fringe of Bernie supporters who actually like Trump over Biden? Maybe, but if there are, not in substantial numbers. Likewise those who will stay home out of spite.

What do you see as the biggest barriers to a Biden victory? Surely you cannot believe that some lunatic fringe of Bernie dead-enders are a significant factor.

I see voter malaise, largely due to selecting an entirely uninteresting candidate, as a much greater danger.

You may have missed Delvo claiming in this thread today that Biden is worse than Trump.

I will agree that folks such as yourself, trying very very hard to sell the various claims of Biden having dementia, Biden being a rapist, and Biden being entirely uninteresting could be a barrier to a Biden victory. It all depends on how many people take these claims seriously.

edited in response to your edit: Also the whole bit about the Iran war vote you keep pushing, as though Trump has not bombed Iraq and launched at least one strike against Iranian forces. That sort of 'veal is better than big-agro kale' nonsense could also be a barrier.

 

[theprestige]

How about you answer my question? Will you be happy when it's a Democrat running kinder, gentler concentration camps at the border?

How is that even a question? We already have the case study: ICE detention centers under Obama vs ICE detention centers under Trump. (There's also drone strikes under Bush versus drone strikes under Obama.)

 

[theprestige]

More like meat from a baby seal killed by bludgeoning it while forcing it to watch K-Pop?

I prepare all my meat Gangnam style.

 

[theprestige]

Come on, guys. Just because analogies always fail, that's no reason to torture them this way. It's like beating up the retarded kid for not being smart enough to hang onto his lunch money.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

How is that even a question? We already have the case study: ICE detention centers under Obama vs ICE detention centers under Trump. (There's also drone strikes under Bush versus drone strikes under Obama.)

Can't wait to march in a large, enthusiastic mob to restore "deporter in chief" policies, singing "we will overcome"

Obama is remembered fondly for several things. His immigration policy is not one of them.

 

[Delvo]

Whether it's kale or spinach or veal or whatever else (maybe popcorn), there is something sadly delicious about watching the very same people who claimed before that he was the most electable now flailing with excuses for why he isn't very electable.

The big names in media & politics who pushed the electability myth in the first place lied because their higher priority is stopping progressivism, not trumpism. Perhaps I can find some more pity for those who actually fell for it... sort of like distinguishing between the Creationism of Kent & Eric Hovind and the Creationism of the average Creationist who heard it from the Hovinds and thus might actually believe it.

 

[wareyin]

Whether it's kale or spinach or veal or whatever else (maybe popcorn), there is something sadly delicious about watching the very same people who claimed before that he was the most electable now flailing with excuses for why he isn't very electable.

Wait, other than a couple diehard Bernie or bust people, who in this thread is claiming that Biden isn't very electable?

The big names in media & politics who pushed the electability myth in the first place lied because their higher priority is stopping progressivism, not trumpism. Perhaps I can find some more pity for those who actually fell for it... sort of like distinguishing between the Creationism of Kent & Eric Hovind and the Creationism of the average Creationist who heard it from the Hovinds and thus might actually believe it.

Now that is definitely a failed and tortured analogy. Biden leads both Sanders and Trump in virtually all polling. Why would anyone be claiming it's a myth that he's electable?

 

[The_Animus]

Hmmm, this one has good beginnings. Hows about we add in the relevant bits where the vegan completely ignores several vegetarian options on the humane restaurant menu? And then the vegan cheers on the steak restaurant that doesn't care, saying it's actually better than the humane restaurant? Or then asks stupid questions about how people will feel if the cage-free restaurant still uses cages?

Except that's not what is happening. In fact they've gone out of their way numerous times to point this out. You keep ignoring what they're saying in favor of a straw man.

 

[Suddenly]

Wait, other than a couple diehard Bernie or bust people, who in this thread is claiming that Biden isn't very electable?

Apparently the people who think these diehards who had no plan on voting for Biden are significant enough to cause Biden to not be elected.

Which is all sorts of circular, but here we are.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Joe Rogan, surprisingly to me, said he'd vote for Trump over Biden. i was also surprised when he initially endorsed Bernie Sanders.

I’d rather vote for Trump than [Biden]. I don’t think he can handle anything. You’re relying entirely on his cabinet. If you want to talk about an individual leader who can communicate, he can’t do that. And we don’t know what the **** he’ll be like after a year in office. The pressure of being President of the United States is something than no one has ever prepared for. The only one who seems to be fine with it is Trump, oddly enough. He doesn’t seem to be aging at all or in any sort of decline. Obama, almost immediately, started looking older. George W. [Bush], almost immediately, started looking older.

Even I don't agree with all of that.