How do Truthers explain the cooperation/coordination needed within the US govt...

[Allen773]

Wait, so you are saying you would betray your country and soil your good name for 10 cents?
Is this your explanation for the question in the OP? That everyone is as cheap, cynical and self-hating as you?

“I’m a greedy amoral mercenary, isn’t everyone else? I don’t understand the confusion.”

 

[Allen773]

It's that special type of compartmentalisation when no one knows what other people are doing yet simultaneously worth closely with them.

I can’t imagine why I am being directed to place these demolition charges in the basement of the World Trade Center, but I have to work for all that gold they’re giving me, so like any normal human being I won’t ask questions.

 

[Allen773]

Remember the No-Fly Zone? Every time Iraq shot at one of our planes it was a violation of the cease-fire agreement they sign. Clinton used a couple of attacks to blow up a bunch of stuff in Iraq while he was POTUS. Cease-Fire doesn't mean we were at peace with Iraq, it meant we'd stop shooting at them if they stopped shooting at us. We didn't 911, we didn't need WMD's, all we had to do - if the plan was to invade Iraq - was to wait until Saddam did something massively stupid...which would have come sooner or later...

Saddam was so reckless and greedy, he launched two wars with the old-fashioned goal of annexing territory, first in Iran and then in Kuwait. That’s Hitler levels of delusion. But Saddam, as evil and brutal as he was in his own right, had nowhere near the power of Nazi Germany.

One major part of Saddam’s continued duplicity/bluffing on WMDs was that he wanted to convince not just his own people (or the US) that he might just have them, or at least the capability; but that the many enemies he had made in the Middle East would believe he had them and so would be dissuaded from trying to remove him from power. The two countries he was particularly worried about (again, besides the US) were Israel, the only nuclear-armed power in the Middle East — and Iran, who had their own WMD programs, supported and provided sanctuary to the Shia opponents of Saddam within Iraq, and who had demonstrated their resilience against Iraq back in the 1980s.

Of course, the US toppled Saddam anyway, empowered the Iraqi Shia - and in turn, Iran - and created a massive recruiting opportunity for al Qaeda and its affiliates. And Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the godfather of what became ISIS, shrewdly created an alliance of hardcore jihadist foreign fighters, angry, disenfranchised (and armed) Baathists, and Iraqi Sunnis who took up arms against both the Americans and the Shia — an alliance that sparked a sectarian bloodbath and civil war that ensnared American troops and their allies, along with millions of Iraqis caught in the crossfire.

Strategic winners of the ill-advised, poorly planned US-led invasion and occupation of Iraq: Iran and ISIS. Not good!

 

[smartcooky]

SECRET BLACK-OPS MEETING TRANSCRIPT:

Mr.X : The plan is to fake an attack on the US by flying four jumbo jets into specific targets.

Col. Y: What are the targets?

Mr. X: Both towers of the WTC in New York, the Pentagon, and a field somewhere in Pennsylvania.

Col. Y: Okay, what? Why crash a plane into Pennsylvania?

Mr.X: I'll get to that. Phase 1 will be the crashes, and Phase 2 will be the collapse of the buildings using controlled demolition.

Col Y: Are you nuts? Why not rig the buildings with explosives and set them off instead of flying jumbo jets into them?

Mr.X: We need a believable narrative?

Col Y: What kind of narrative?

Mr.X: We plan to invade Afghanistan and Iraq under the cover of these attacks. Those buildings need to come down.

Col Y: Why isn't crashing jets into the targets enough?

Mr X: We need the visuals, footage of the towers collapsing will be played over and over enraging the American people until they demand revenge.

Col Y: Okay. And we frame Iraqi Republican Guards and the Taliban for the attacks?

Mr.X: No, we'll frame Egyptians, Saudis, and everyone but Iraqis?

Col Y: But you said we're using the attacks as an excuse to invade Iraq and Afghanistan? Why aren't we going to frame their governments?

Mr X: Too obvious.

Col Y: But won't the American people prefer we deal with the Saudis?

Mr.X: Leave that to me.

Col Y: Okay, so we invade Iraq and Afghanistan a week after the attack, right?

Mr X: No, fool, we invade Afghanistan first because we're framing Al Qaeda.

Col Y: Why not just strike Al Qaeda now? They bombed two of our embassies and the USS Cole. Why not just fake an intelligence report that they're planning a big strike in the US and then thwack them and invade Afghanistan under that pretense?

Mr X: We need dead Americans.

Col Y: When do we invade Iraq?

Mr X: Two years later. We're going to claim that they're stockpiling WMD's.

Col Y: They don't have any WMD's. Are we going to fly in some of our chemical stockpile to plant in Iraq?

Mr X: No.

Col Y: So we're going to wire three buildings with demo charges and fly jumbo jets - not hijacked by Iraqis or Afghans - into these targets to invade two countries...because why?

Mr X: Money and control.

Col Y: My kid is at Harvard and he says the money will be in something called Social Media.

Mr X: No, war is the answer (twirls mustache).

This reads like a script for a "That Mitchell & Webb" conspiracy theory skit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5muY64Oyp10

 

[bknight]

This reads like a script for a "That Mitchell & Webb" conspiracy theory skit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5muY64Oyp10

"We need to build a massive rocket."

 

[smartcooky]

"We need to build a massive rocket."

We also need to get a chauffeur drunk!

 

[bknight]

We also need to get a chauffeur drunk!

Of course, "by accident".

 

[smartcooky]

Of course, "by accident".

 

[caveman1917]

"How do Truthers explain the cooperation/coordination needed within the US govt for an “inside job?” of 9/11?"

They can't.

More importantly, they don't need to. The assumption that false flag attacks can only be carried out by informing beforehand every person working at every level of federal, state, and local government is beyond stupid.

"Well you claim that the CIA carried out false flag attacks in Operation Ajax, but then how do you explain that the cleaning lady working at the local office of the National Park Service hasn't come forward about this? Because obviously the CIA could never have carried out such false flag attacks without having informed her, so got you there, you CTer!"

 

[Axxman300]

More importantly, they don't need to. The assumption that false flag attacks can only be carried out by informing beforehand every person working at every level of federal, state, and local government is beyond stupid.

"Well you claim that the CIA carried out false flag attacks in Operation Ajax, but then how do you explain that the cleaning lady working at the local office of the National Park Service hasn't come forward about this? Because obviously the CIA could never have carried out such false flag attacks without having informed her, so got you there, you CTer!"

Thank you for proving our point.

At no point did anyone say that everyone working at the Federal, State, and local governments were informed. Your lack of attention to detail and need to prove opinion as fact is why 911 Truth has been the clown car of CT's.

The guys working on the docks at US Navy bases don't know what the inside of a nuclear submarine's reactor room looks like, nor do they know the submarine's launch depths for missiles. The crew of an aircraft carrier is around 5,000 but very few know the arming depth of a helicopter launched torpedo.

Yet every day thousands of classified areas are accessed by technicians and cleaning staff who have very limited clearance or none at all (depended on the location). And our secrets are kept. Why? Because precautions are taken; desks are cleared and locked at the end of the day, computer terminals are logged out and secured, walls with maps and photos are covered by screen (at least they used to be), burn bags are collected on schedule, and so on.

The USS Maddox filed a report in which it thought it had been attacked. LBJ and Washington used that report to step up involvement in Vietnam.

The USS Maine blew up and sank in Havana Harbor, and the US Government (egged on by Yellow Journalism) used to event to launch the Spanish-American War.

On 9/11/2001, nineteen Al Qaeda operatives hijacked four commercial jetliners and flew three of them into targets in NYC and Washington D.C. with the last one flown into the ground during a passenger revolt. The President used this event to invade Afghanistan. Later, because the Bush NSC were 911 Truthers, the US invaded Iraq.

None of those incidents was initiated by a cabal. Each happened as history recorded it did, and then the powers that be took advantage of public anger and hysteria to launch military action.

 

[smartcooky]

On 9/11/2001, nineteen Al Qaeda operatives hijacked four commercial jetliners and flew three of them into targets in NYC and Washington D.C. with the last one flown into the ground during a passenger revolt. The President used this event to invade Afghanistan. Later, because the Bush NSC were 911 Truthers, the US invaded Iraq.

I have always thought the Iranian government must have pissed themselves laughing when America invaded Iraq intent on deposing Saddam Hussein. Its something they had been trying to do for eight years from 1980 to 1988.

 

[caveman1917]

Thank you for proving our point.

At no point did anyone say that everyone working at the Federal, State, and local governments were informed.

True, only those on the East Coast, as well as the private sector "from the firms working in the World Trade Center to American and United Airlines" as well as every other country's government and intelligence service.

So to be clear, you're sticking with the claim that the only way for, say, the CIA to covertly get some jihadi's to engage in a terrorist attack on their behalf is to inform the federal government, state and local governments on the East Coast, as well as the private sector from the firms in the WTC to several air line companies?

Tell me then, I've already referenced Operation Ajax, where the CIA covertly got Islamic extremists to engage in terrorist attacks on their behalf. How could they possibly have done so without informing the "entire" government, private sector and media - since this is apparently a requirement for running such an operation?

Your lack of attention to detail and need to prove opinion as fact is why 911 Truth has been the clown car of CT's.

I'm certainly seeing clownish stuff going on, that's for sure.

None of those incidents was initiated by a cabal.

Prove it. Don't open the spoilers below until you've posted your answer to this challenge.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

 

[caveman1917]

Here's a more recent example of something similar:

Osmakac was the target of an elaborately orchestrated FBI sting that involved a paid informant, as well as FBI agents and support staff working on the setup for more than three months. The FBI provided all of the weapons seen in Osmakac’s martyrdom video. The bureau also gave Osmakac the car bomb he allegedly planned to detonate, and even money for a taxi so he could get to where the FBI needed him to go. Osmakac was a deeply disturbed young man, according to several of the psychiatrists and psychologists who examined him before trial. He became a “terrorist” only after the FBI provided the means, opportunity and final prodding necessary to make him one.

In this case the goal was getting arrests for terrorism, but one can easily see how this same method could've been used to actually get someone to engage in terrorist attacks. If the premise of this thread were true, then how was the FBI able to accomplish this without informing federal, state, and local governments as well as every other country's government and the private sector and media corporations?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Tell me then, I've already referenced Operation Ajax, where the CIA covertly got Islamic extremists to engage in terrorist attacks on their behalf. How could they possibly have done so without informing the "entire" government, private sector and media - since this is apparently a requirement for running such an operation?

This is a somewhat...idiosyncratic view of Operation Ajax.
I always thought this was the name for the operation to remove Iran's democratically-elected president, and replace him with the Shah. In what way was this the CIA running Islamic extremists?
Oh, and how do you know about Operation Ajax? If it was so secret, how come it's public knowledge now? Aren't all secret operations always completely secret, since this is apparently a requirement for 9/11 CTs?

 

[Dude111]

How do Truthers explain the cooperation/coordination needed within the US govt for an “inside job?” of 9/11?

 
Well the US govt is probably the most corrupt in the world..... They can do stuff you wouldnt even imagine!!!

 

[BStrong]

/thread

GOLD -The picklock that never fails

If you were hip to the trip, you'd know it's Plata o plomo and it does fail.

 

[Oystein]

*
Well the US govt is probably the most corrupt in the world..... They can do stuff you wouldnt even imagine!!!

Hmm what makes you think that? Have you assessed the corruption level of a majority of the country governments of the world and assembled a ranking? Or can you point to any such ranking as your source?

How does the corruption of the US government compare to that of, say, the UK, Uruguay, United Arab Emirates or Ukraine, just to stay within the letter U?

Or did you write out of your arse?

(Apologies in case this was sarcasm and I missed it - I just don't know you)

 

[pgimeno]

More importantly, they don't need to. The assumption that false flag attacks can only be carried out by informing beforehand every person working at every level of federal, state, and local government is beyond stupid.

So you're implying that many people didn't need to know what they were doing, just follow the orders. I have a problem with that. After the fact, they would notice what they have helped doing, and you can be sure that many of them would speak up out of guilt. Since that hasn't happened, your claim isn't convincing.

 

[Leftus]

True, only those on the East Coast, as well as the private sector "from the firms working in the World Trade Center to American and United Airlines" as well as every other country's government and intelligence service.

So to be clear, you're sticking with the claim that the only way for, say, the CIA to covertly get some jihadi's to engage in a terrorist attack on their behalf is to inform the federal government, state and local governments on the East Coast, as well as the private sector from the firms in the WTC to several air line companies?

Tell me then, I've already referenced Operation Ajax, where the CIA covertly got Islamic extremists to engage in terrorist attacks on their behalf. How could they possibly have done so without informing the "entire" government, private sector and media - since this is apparently a requirement for running such an operation?



I'm certainly seeing clownish stuff going on, that's for sure.



Prove it. Don't open the spoilers below until you've posted your answer to this challenge.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

The point you seem to be missing is that it wasn't 19 jihadists. It was planes never taking off and not even on the flight schedule, missiles, controlled demolition, fake news reports, CGI, and the list goes on. If it were just "the CIA convinced some jihadists" then, yes, you wouldn't need Consuela to cover for you. It's when you invent all sorts of co-ordination such as the garbage that is the no-planers that you start involving scores of scores of people.

 

[bknight]

Hmm what makes you think that? Have you assessed the corruption level of a majority of the country governments of the world and assembled a ranking? Or can you point to any such ranking as your source?

How does the corruption of the US government compare to that of, say, the UK, Uruguay, United Arab Emirates or Ukraine, just to stay within the letter U?

Or did you write out of your arse?

(Apologies in case this was sarcasm and I missed it - I just don't know you)

It didn't seem like sarcasm to me either.