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2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III

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Skeptic Ginger said:
Anyone notice that the more Sanders feels he is certain to win, the more he speaks out about the Democratic Party being 'other', not one of his crowd?

It's not smart, seeing everyone as your enemy instead of building bridges with people whose support might be important later.

CNN: Bernie Sanders just declared war on the Democratic establishment

It's not helpful.
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He has been seen as the other to the Democratic Party and enemy for a while now. Might as well lean into it.
 
Sideroxylon said:
He has been seen as the other to the Democratic Party and enemy for a while now. Might as well lean into it.
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It's weird how Democratic candidates seem to have their Chosen One Moment at the worst possible time.

Hillary Moment 1.0: Nope, sorry. Barack Obama.

Bernie Moment 1.0: Nope, sorry. Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Moment 2.0: Nope, sorry. Donald Trump.

Bernie Moment 2.0: Seriously dude? Can it please be any time other than this one election cycle?

Biden Moment: Nope, sorry. That ship sailed 20 years ago.

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ETA: Regarding Bernie, what I mean is there is definitely a time and a place for a national political party to do some soul searching, fight some internal battles, yank their Overton window one way or the other. The moderate wing and the progressive wing can certainly have it out, and have the Democratic party emerge better for it.

But it seems to me that this election is strategically about defeating Trump, not about resetting the party. For the lead candidate to lean into his existential conflict with the party he's running under... Seems counter-productive. Bernie sees this as his chance at the Moment. The party needs him to see it as his chance to rescue the party.
 
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Cabbage said:
But you're ignoring the fact that: They can just coast through Super Tuesday without spending another dime, wait to see how they do then (possibly a miracle? Why not wait 24 hours for free for that possibility?) and then announce Wednesday if they don't receive any good news.

Everything to gain with literally nothing to lose....and yet they toss it all, without even waiting to see tomorrow's results.

Makes no sense--unless they're trying to block Bernie.
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Actually a lot to lose... Maybe they are actually honorable democrats who actually see the danger in having Trump in power, and want to resign because, even if they could stick around and hope for a miracle (without it costing anything, they recognize that its more valuable to the country to have the democrats coalesce around a front runner early on.

Compare that to Bernie in the 2016 primaries, where he dragged things out almost to the bitter end, leading to deep divisions that probably affected the Democrat's ability to take on Trump.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Anyone notice that the more Sanders feels he is certain to win, the more he speaks out about the Democratic Party being 'other', not one of his crowd?
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He has been seen as the other to the Democratic Party and enemy for a while now. Might as well lean into it.
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Uhhh... no. He may end up being the Democratic nominee. He will need all possible resources to battle Trump. Pissing off a good chunk of those resources is not the way to go.

The proper solution is to, well, appear presidential. Be above the fray. "They are attacking me, but I will not stoop to such pointless rhetoric". The U.S. has already had 3 years of a president who "leans into things" and attacks people that have slighted him. I don't think they want another 4 years of a Democrat doing the same.
 
Segnosaur said:
Actually a lot to lose... Maybe they are actually honorable democrats who actually see the danger in having Trump in power, and want to resign because, even if they could stick around and hope for a miracle (without it costing anything, they recognize that its more valuable to the country to have the democrats coalesce around a front runner early on.

Compare that to Bernie in the 2016 primaries, where he dragged things out almost to the bitter end, leading to deep divisions that probably affected the Democrat's ability to take on Trump.
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It does seem to only be the Sanders supporters that don't see these drop-outs as being an effort to defeat Trump on behalf of the 60 plus % of the Party that clearly thinks Sanders is unlikely to be able to deliver that.

They can't see it as an effort to get the best candidate who has a realistic chance out front, but seemingly only as an effort to "block Bernie".
 
I just voted for Biden. To win an election against your crazy uncle, it's best nut to run your other crazy uncle against him.
 
Distracted1 said:
Actually a lot to lose... Maybe they are actually honorable democrats who actually see the danger in having Trump in power, and want to resign because, even if they could stick around and hope for a miracle (without it costing anything, they recognize that its more valuable to the country to have the democrats coalesce around a front runner early on.
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It does seem to only be the Sanders supporters that don't see these drop-outs as being an effort to defeat Trump on behalf of the 60 plus % of the Party that clearly thinks Sanders is unlikely to be able to deliver that.

They can't see it as an effort to get the best candidate who has a realistic chance out front, but seemingly only as an effort to "block Bernie".
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Heck, even if Sanders does eventually win the nomination... it will be better for the party as a whole to be as united as possible (even behind a candidate that many may not like) rather than go into the convention with a divided party and end up with a brokered convention.

The eventual winner should ideally have a majority of the voters and delegates hind them before the convention (not just a plurality).
 
Segnosaur said:
Compare that to Bernie in the 2016 primaries, where he dragged things out almost to the bitter end, leading to deep divisions that probably affected the Democrat's ability to take on Trump.
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What? He stayed in because it was a 2 person race. Once there was no longer a way for him to win, he dropped out and campaigned for her at like 40 events.

Your comparison is ridiculous
 
I wonder how many of the Bernie Supporters active on this board now buy some variation on the "The DNC rigged the 2016 primaries to get Hillary the nomination" conspiracy?

Way, way too much this is reading like righting the wrongs of 2016 which... not the time people.
 
//Doublepost//

/hijack/ Is anyone else doubleposting a lot more then normal lately, and not just in the long threads?
 
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The_Animus said:
Compare that to Bernie in the 2016 primaries, where he dragged things out almost to the bitter end, leading to deep divisions that probably affected the Democrat's ability to take on Trump.
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What? He stayed in because it was a 2 person race. Once there was no longer a way for him to win, he dropped out and campaigned for her at like 40 events.

Your comparison is ridiculous
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Yes, Sanders dropped out when he was numerically eliminated.

However, he could have dropped out much sooner (for example in May)... after Clinton had built a significant lead by winning states like New York, Florida and Texas, and was leading in the polls in some of the larger remaining states such as California. At that point, Sanders wasn't numerically eliminated, but it would have truly taken a miracle to win.

It was harmful to the Democrats for him to continue past that point.

And yes, he did campaign for Hillary afterwards... good for him. Doesn't mean him sticking in the race as long as he did wasn't harmful to the cause.
 
Aridas said:
Warren's pretty likely to persist until the end, regardless, unless something significantly changes.
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I know she said she would, but she's going to have to drop out, probably tomorrow or the next day. I think she's sticking it out today just in case she wins Massachusetts and picks up some delegates, but she will still drop out even if that happens.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I wonder how many of the Bernie Supporters active on this board now buy some variation on the "The DNC rigged the 2016 primaries to get Hillary the nomination" conspiracy?

Way, way too much this is reading like righting the wrongs of 2016 which... not the time people.
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It's like the Oscars.

"You don't deserve Best Picture this year, but we're giving it to you anyway because you deserved it last year and we gave it to someone who didn't deserve it because we shafted them the year before when they did deserve it."
 
Distracted1 said:
It does seem to only be the Sanders supporters that don't see these drop-outs as being an effort to defeat Trump on behalf of the 60 plus % of the Party that clearly thinks Sanders is unlikely to be able to deliver that.

They can't see it as an effort to get the best candidate who has a realistic chance out front, but seemingly only as an effort to "block Bernie".
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Because it's done by blocking Bernie. I don't see why that is so hard to understand. The Democratic Party might have the best of intentions in blocking Bernie, but they are still blocking Bernie. It sure seems funny to me that for such a divisive candidate who is doomed to lose to Trump, it's taking the combined weight of "60 plus %" of the party to keep him from even being given the chance.
 
Distracted1 said:
It does seem to only be the Sanders supporters that don't see these drop-outs as being an effort to defeat Trump on behalf of the 60 plus % of the Party that clearly thinks Sanders is unlikely to be able to deliver that.

They can't see it as an effort to get the best candidate who has a realistic chance out front, but seemingly only as an effort to "block Bernie".
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They assume Bernie is less likely to win against Trump, Bernie supporters assume Biden is less likely to win against Trump. Both sides are engaging in a similar rationalization, but with different opinions about who is more electable in the general.

I think everyone recognizes that a brokered convention is bad for whoever emerges victorious. Much better for the field to narrow soon and having a candidate win an outright majority and save the party a nasty squabble at the convention.

I am withholding judgement of Warren until after Super Tuesday. Unless she has a miracle at the ballot box today, she should drop out.
 
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