Merged 2019-nCoV / Corona virus

Status
Not open for further replies.
99 new cases on Diamond Princess. Why isn't Japan simply putting everyone in hospital ? They will end up there like this anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...hina-wuhan-hubei-cases-death-toll-latest-news

There's a very important piece of the puzzle contained in that news, referring to cases on the ship:


This gives some certainty to the idea that most cases are very mild or asymptomatic. It also gives a fair bit of certainty to airborne transmission and ease of infection.

That will mean that in the next week or so we'll see the more severe cases springing up all over the place to match the spread that's already happening.
 
Is there a chance that this thing had already hit hawaii pretty wide about 1.5 months ago, maybe a little earlier?

We still as far as I know dont have test kits here. Ours were delivered to another state and then mishandled when they were resent and were not functional. The first few that reach here will most likely be stolen so it may be a while before we're up to date in that regard.

The reason I ask is right after xmass, we had a lot lot lot lot of cancellations and something we rarely see from the schools in notes telling kids to stay home if they were at all sick. Nobody was really talking about the corona virus, it was a bad cold type of thing which went away after a week or so leaving a persistent dry cough that lasts for weeks. They thought it was pertussis at first but didn't seem to be.

I wonder if there's a way to see health records, but I know personally, people who never never go to the doctor who were going since xmass
 
Is there a chance that this thing had already hit hawaii pretty wide about 1.5 months ago, maybe a little earlier?

Almost certainly not. We'd have seen more cases worldwide far earlier if it had made it to Hawaii that fast.

Nobody was really talking about the corona virus, it was a bad cold type of thing which went away after a week or so leaving a persistent dry cough that lasts for weeks. They thought it was pertussis at first but didn't seem to be.

Sounds like a typical winter virus rather than Covid-19, which goes the other way - starts with a dry cough that can later turn into pneumonia.
 
I would say because for the conformable class the lives of the people who do their work are rarely of concern and never in the forefront of their minds. Not one of the reports I read until recently mentioned any crew, it was all about passengers being put out.

One article I read this morning said cruise ships are a risk because of their conditions and didn't make a single reference to the problems with the crew.
 
Last edited:
There's a very important piece of the puzzle contained in that news, referring to cases on the ship:



This gives some certainty to the idea that most cases are very mild or asymptomatic. It also gives a fair bit of certainty to airborne transmission and ease of infection.

That will mean that in the next week or so we'll see the more severe cases springing up all over the place to match the spread that's already happening.

That's not evidence of airborne until they rule out ongoing transmission among and from the crew. Unless there's a pattern of cases in rooms with connected ventilation. It's frustrating not having important details. I would have thought local experts were on it, but not after hearing the crew complaints.


A couple of things are possible. Could be all the culturing is finding cases earlier than symptoms appear. And/or more asymptomatic and mild cases are going unnoticed and spreading the virus.

And we can't rule out false positives. There seems to be a number of problems with testing.
 
Last edited:
Is there a chance that this thing had already hit hawaii pretty wide about 1.5 months ago, maybe a little earlier?

We still as far as I know dont have test kits here. Ours were delivered to another state and then mishandled when they were resent and were not functional. The first few that reach here will most likely be stolen so it may be a while before we're up to date in that regard.

The reason I ask is right after xmass, we had a lot lot lot lot of cancellations and something we rarely see from the schools in notes telling kids to stay home if they were at all sick. Nobody was really talking about the corona virus, it was a bad cold type of thing which went away after a week or so leaving a persistent dry cough that lasts for weeks. They thought it was pertussis at first but didn't seem to be.

I wonder if there's a way to see health records, but I know personally, people who never never go to the doctor who were going since xmass
Much more likely that was influenza or something else.

If it was CoVID-19 it probably would have presented with an outbreak of pneumonia and an unusual increase in ED visits.
 
That's not evidence of airborne until they rule out ongoing transmission among and from the crew. Unless there's a pattern of cases in rooms with connected ventilation. It's frustrating not having important details. I would have thought local experts were on it, but not after hearing the crew complaints.

Yeah, Japan appears to have handled this with all the aplomb China showed at the start, and they at least had the excuse of it being new.

I hope all the people who criticised China give Japan the same treatment.

A couple of things are possible. Could be all the culturing is finding cases earlier than symptoms appear. And/or more asymptomatic and mild cases are going unnoticed and spreading the virus.

And we can't rule out false positives. There seems to be a number of problems with testing.

Yes to all the above, although I doubt the false positives are sufficient to account for the increasing numbers on the ship. One or two, sure - 300, not likely.
____________________________

Applying maths with a little more information now, I get the following:

60% of the population catch it (4.5bn), of which 70% are asymptomatic or very mild. That leaves 1.35 billion people who will know they've caught something, and going by data to date, 10-15% of those cases will be severe enough to require hospital treatment.*

That's between 130 and 200 million people, and 5% of them will die - 6-10 million. All of that is going to put strain on every sector of society, particularly the health sector, which will come close to breaking point, and will break in many places. Intensive care will be overwhelmed everywhere the virus gets to.

One of the antivirals being tested working is the best hope we have for avoiding that level of harm.

*The cruise ship percentage is a lot higher, but I'm presuming a much higher median age than ordinary populations, and older people are definitely the front line for trouble.
 
Yeah, Japan appears to have handled this with all the aplomb China showed at the start, and they at least had the excuse of it being new.

I hope all the people who criticised China give Japan the same treatment.

.

In terms of competency, Japan’s official handling of this situation deserves some criticism, and I have already done so such as with the failure to quarantine or test all those returning on charter flights from Wuhan, with some of the expatriated passengers adamantly refusing to be tested and returning home with the request that they stay home for two weeks.

But some of the criticism of China is different from the criticism that Japan should have, and the reason is obvious. The concerns are that China actively suppressed information that could have been useful, and that they continue to suppress information, arresting those who have been critical of the government and journalists covering the spread of the virus. The law enforcement has also been at the other end of the scale with draconian police tactics against those not wearing face masks outside of the home. And it goes without saying (or should do) that in that kind of environment, everything that China chooses to say about the situation should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
I'm not understanding the cruise ship thing.

Wasn't it a given that FOR SURE 100% of those onboard would be exposed? No way around it?

Why were they stuck in that incubator? Wasn't that THE perfect case to run a test of how they could contain things, early on where they could control the variables? There was nowhere to stick them but leave them on the ship sharing all the same air in a small confined space?

Has anyone from that ship died yet?

If not why not?

Have 5% of them died? If not, why not?
 
I'm not understanding the cruise ship thing.

Wasn't it a given that FOR SURE 100% of those onboard would be exposed? No way around it?

Why were they stuck in that incubator? Wasn't that THE perfect case to run a test of how they could contain things, early on where they could control the variables? There was nowhere to stick them but leave them on the ship sharing all the same air in a small confined space?

Has anyone from that ship died yet?

If not why not?

Have 5% of them died? If not, why not?

Well I guess the issue is it's not Japanese ship. It's not Japanese problem. The helped people who had problems. And that's it.
Nobody from the ship died yet, and for what little we know, it usually takes 2-3 weeks to die after developing symptoms. So it's too early to tell.
Also very few people outside Chine died. I think it's mainly because outside China they get much better care, simply because there is lot less cases outside China.
 
I'm not understanding the cruise ship thing.

Wasn't it a given that FOR SURE 100% of those onboard would be exposed? No way around it?
It's not clear who had been exposed. But they were quarantined because one couldn't tell who was and who wasn't.

In the meantime ongoing exposures have occurred, still not clear how but the most likely source are crew members.

Has anyone from that ship died yet?
Not that I can find reported.

Have 5% of them died? If not, why not?
Because that is not the case fatality rate. People keep playing with the numbers as if they are determining useful information. It's unreliable, even official numbers are only showing fatality rates among the sickest and hospitalized patients.
 
It's not clear who had been exposed. But they were quarantined because one couldn't tell who was and who wasn't.

In the meantime ongoing exposures have occurred, still not clear how but the most likely source are crew members.

I dont get it. A tin can where everyone shares the same air, is there a question whether they would all get exposed or not? And I'm using the word "exposed" specifically here.
 
I dont get it. A tin can where everyone shares the same air, is there a question whether they would all get exposed or not? And I'm using the word "exposed" specifically here.

Until we know how the virus is being transmitted it can't be known who has or has not been exposed.

Then if it is airborne, at what concentration is it spread? The people within 10 feet of the source person? The cabins closest to the crew quarters? The air circulation on level 2 but not level 1?

There are lots of reasons everyone onboard hasn't had equal opportunity exposures.
 
At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if almost everyone on that cruise ship ends up testing positive.
At the best of times cruise ships are floating petri dishes.

For fear of spreading norovirus, one of the first things you are told to do when coming on board is,

"Do not shake hands. With anybody."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom