Cont: Trans Women are not Women II: The Bath Of Khan

[BobTheCoward]

No its tied to biology.

Go for your life dudes thinking they are a chick socially gender wise or vice versa, but realism and fairness means sport goes with biology

Sports are not going with biology. It has been socially this whole time.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/141...its-not-all-about-the-swimsuit-edition-photos

These covers are not about chromosomes.

 

[cullennz]

This thread is not about what a magazine no one reads anymore puts on its cover

 

[William Parcher]

3 Connecticut high school girls are suing over a policy that allows trans athletes to compete in girls' sports

Three Connecticut high school girls, represented by their mothers, have filed a lawsuit over a policy which allows transgender athletes to participate in sports based on their gender identity.

Selina Soule, Chelsea Mitchell, Alanna Smith and their mothers claim in their lawsuit the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference's (CIAC) policy is a violation of the Title IX act -- which bars discrimination on the basis of sex.

The policy, they say in the suit, results in "boys displacing girls in competitive track events in Connecticut."

CIAC said in a statement after the lawsuit that the policy was implemented in 2013 and is compliant with both state and federal law.

In a statement earlier this week, the American Civil Liberties Union said it would seek to join the lawsuit to defend the interests of transgender student athletes.

"Efforts to undermine Title IX by claiming it doesn't apply to a subset of girls will ultimately hurt all students and compromise the work of ending the long legacy of sex discrimination in sports," Chase Strangio with the ACLU said in a statement...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/14/us/transgender-athletes-connecticut-lawsuit/index.html

 

[BobTheCoward]

I already answered that question before you asked it.

I still don't understand your point. Nothing stops a D1 athlete from playing at a D3 school. Why are you talking so much about female athletes with different body chemistry? If it is about competition, how are you revealing your preferences that you care about competition?

 

[BobTheCoward]

This thread is not about what a magazine no one reads anymore puts on its cover

Let's step back for a second. Let's say that this is about competitiveness and protecting it via sex segregation as a rule.

Does that mean you are dealing with a situation where women are not able to compete against other women because of the rule?

 

[cullennz]

Let's step back for a second. Let's say that this is about competitiveness and protecting it via sex segregation as a rule.



Does that mean you are dealing with a situation where women are not able to compete against other women because of the rule?

It means that biological dudes who think they are gender female and are trans women should be respected and called she etc. But they are not biologically female so biological females should not have to compete with them in biological female sports categories
8

 

[Roboramma]

What are you doing about same sex sandbagging and why doesn't it apply if both sexes competed?

As Ziggurat pointed out, same sex sandbagging isn't a problem when there are only two divisions: male and female. There is no lower division to sandbag into.

When there are separate divisions, the lower prestige of the less competitive division tends to discourage sandbagging. Something interesting in the case of sex segregated sports is the women's sports can still be high prestige, which I think is a good thing. So there is some motivation for men who are not at the top of the men's division but still highly skilled athletes to enter women's divisions where they could outcompete the female competitors. They can achieve levels of prestige that they couldn't in the men's divisions.

That's not currently a problem in the sex segregated system, but it's a potential problem with a women's division that is open to male athletes.

 

[BobTheCoward]

As Ziggurat pointed out, same sex sandbagging isn't a problem when there are only two divisions: male and female. There is no lower division to sandbag into.

When there are separate divisions, the lower prestige of the less competitive division tends to discourage sandbagging. Something interesting in the case of sex segregated sports is the women's sports can still be high prestige, which I think is a good thing. So there is some motivation for men who are not at the top of the men's division but still highly skilled athletes to enter women's divisions where they could outcompete the female competitors. They can achieve levels of prestige that they couldn't in the men's divisions.

That's not currently a problem in the sex segregated system, but it's a potential problem with a women's division that is open to male athletes.

I would say you are underselling how difficult it is to live as a trans person.

Being a man pretending to be a woman for personal gainis such a different level of difficulty that bosom buddies couldn't keep it up for more than a season. And that was one of America's greatest actors.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It means that biological dudes who think they are gender female and are trans women should be respected and called she etc. But they are not biologically female so biological females should not have to compete with them in biological female sports categories
8

Whatever benefits these biological females get from being successful in their female sport, those benefits seem tied to gender and not biology. It seems to create a problem by excluding women from that.

 

[cullennz]

As much as you continue to not see it gender is not biology and has zero relevance imho

 

[cullennz]

Put it this way . A bloke may rightly feel they should have been female so chose female as a gender.

All good. Who cares.

Sports are based on biological sex. Not gender.

Play with your biological sex. Bloke. Or don't. Your choice.

 

[The Atheist]

3 Connecticut high school girls are suing over a policy that allows trans athletes to compete in girls' sports

Bit late to the party, mate, that's what the discussion's been about for several days.

Sports are based on biological sex.

Sorry mate, but that's wrong.

Surely you recall Laurel Hubbard at the Commonwealth Games less than 2 years ago? Or the mountain biker, Kate Weatherley, who knocked a load of actual women out of Olympic selection?

Touch of poetic justice that Weatherley's currently out of action with a broken neck.

 

[cullennz]

Bit late to the party, mate, that's what the discussion's been about for several days.







Sorry mate, but that's wrong.



Surely you recall Laurel Hubbard at the Commonwealth Games less than 2 years ago? Or the mountain biker, Kate Weatherley, who knocked a load of actual women out of Olympic selection?



Touch of poetic justice that Weatherley's currently out of action with a broken neck.

Fair call. But both games have kind of turned into a parody of themselves

 

[BobTheCoward]

Put it this way . A bloke may rightly feel they should have been female so chose female as a gender.

All good. Who cares.

Sports are based on biological sex. Not gender.

Play with your biological sex. Bloke. Or don't. Your choice.

Part of our difference is you think the person is making a choice. Most transgender advocates are trying to express that just like sexuality, it isn't a choice.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

I would say you are underselling how difficult it is to live as a trans person.

Being a man pretending to be a woman for personal gainis such a different level of difficulty that bosom buddies couldn't keep it up for more than a season. And that was one of America's greatest actors.

It doesn't matter what difficulties trans face outside of sport.

The ONLY thing that sport authorities should be concerned about is the unfair advantage male trans presenting as female would have physically.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Part of our difference is you think the person is making a choice. Most transgender advocates are trying to express that just like sexuality, it isn't a choice.

Ironically, they are correct. If you are born with a man's body you are male. If you are born with a woman's body you are female. That will never change, period.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Ironically, they are correct. If you are born with a man's body you are male. If you are born with a woman's body you are female. That will never change, period.

And it turns out you have been wrong this whole time. It was never as you described. Just as people didn't realize sexuality was not a choice.

 

[Meadmaker]

Part of our difference is you think the person is making a choice. Most transgender advocates are trying to express that just like sexuality, it isn't a choice.

While you may or may not be right about what he thinks regarding a transgender's choice regarding all that trans stuff, it's at best marginally relevant to the question at hand, which is where a transgirl ought to compete.

Competing in sports certainly is a choice. If the rules allow a person to compete in either the boys' division or the girls' division, then which division they are compete in is also a choice. If the rules specify that a person must compete in a specific division, then that person can compete in that division, or not compete at all, which is also a choice.

To decide whether a transgirl ought to be eligible to compete against girls, or against boys, or whatever rules ought to apply regarding their participation, it is necessary to ask what the purpose of sport is in the first place. Why would a school district expend taxpayer dollars to hold an event where people can come watch young people run, and give a prize and make a great fuss over the person who crosses the finish line first? The answer to that question might shed some light onto the question of what sort of divisions there ought to be, and where Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller ought to compete.

 

[BobTheCoward]

While you may or may not be right about what he thinks regarding a transgender's choice regarding all that trans stuff, it's at best marginally relevant to the question at hand, which is where a transgirl ought to compete..

Transgirls are girls. Just as redhead girls are girls.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm not saying they are separate. It is because they are intertwined that all women should be allowed to compete in women's sport.

You are incoherent on this, because you also say that who a woman is is unconnected to biology. These are contradictory positions. You cannot just pick and choose between them.

There are those who do not check the social box but check the other box, let them in too.

No. First, biology matters, especially in sports. Second, one of the problems here is that there are no standards for what "checking the social box" even means.