Cont: Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3

xjx388 said:
Mentally ill does not equate to dangerous. It's a stereotype.
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And the sky isn't always blue. Just google "dangerous mental illness" and you'll see mental illness can and does cause violent behavior. It also causes a wide range of other dangerous behavior such as driving when you aren't capable. Yes, not all mental illnesses lead directly to dangerous behavior but they certainly can and do.
 
xjx388 said:
Because being mentally ill isn't actually what makes him dangerous.

Mentally ill does not equate to dangerous. It's a stereotype.
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I suppose there is a good point here. I've seen it suggested that one has to be a little crazy to want to be president at all, and one could argue that a brilliant sociopath or sufferer from something classified as a mental illness could still be an effective president. We've had a few depressives, I think. Unfortunately, I think the reality is that Trump is a fool, and always has been. Long before anyone saw evidence of mental decline, critics thought him a self-aggrandizing jerk, and joked about what a bad president he'd be. In his case the evidence of his mental incompetency simply amplifies the wrong things. There's some recreational interest in trying to analyze his nuttiness and quantify the mental deterioration that I think should be obvious to anyone who actually pays attention, but in the end the reason he's a bad president is that he's a ***** idiot who at his best was always unfit for the job. His obvious loss of acuity and aphasia just make his habit of stupidity and lies harder to miss.

I wonder when, if ever, his supporters will find it impossible even for them to pass over his gaffes and infantilisms. At some point, one would imagine, people will look back at this and say "what was I thinking?" but apparently we must fall further down the hole first. I picture Trump with sharpie in hand drawing a mustache on Obama's official portrait and Moscow Mitch and his cronies complimenting him on his creative prowess.
 
One thing so far, he hasn't invaded any other countries or ordered pre-emptive strikes, nuclear or otherwise. The nukes thing is the most obvious danger he presents. But if Trump is rapidly deteriorating cognitively, is he even capable of observing whatever protocol must be observed to launch a nuclear weapon? I'm not sure he can just call up the Pentagon and order it to nuke Tehran. I know the "football" is supposedly with him at all times, but what does that entail? Someone would need to at a minimum input GPS coordinates and pick which bomb(s) to drop.

Is he even capable of issuing coherent orders?
 
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RecoveringYuppy said:
And the sky isn't always blue. Just google "dangerous mental illness" and you'll see mental illness can and does cause violent behavior. It also causes a wide range of other dangerous behavior such as driving when you aren't capable. Yes, not all mental illnesses lead directly to dangerous behavior but they certainly can and do.
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Not all mental illness causes violent behavior, though. And we haven't really seen violent behavior from President Trump. What's the most violent thing he's done? Yell at reporters? Kill terrorists?

If the Yale Group is right, we should be seeing regular violent outbursts, with a clearly worsening trend. But we're not. All of the "evidence" presented so far, of Trump's allegedly dangerous mental illness, hasn't shown any danger. The diction, the grammar and syntax, the facial expressions, the hair... Tell yourself this proves he's crazy, if you like. But don't pretend it proves he's dangerous.

Vote him out in November for being a bad president.

Impeach him for high crimes and misdemeanors, if you can manage it.

Start 25th Amendment proceedings because he's dangerously crazy? That just makes Dr Lee look like a clown. An unethical clown.
 
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jimbob said:
Please stop with the vapours.

It's not a generic mental illness that is the problem,
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Then why is there a long running thread with people telling me how obvious it is that Trump has a mental illness? Weird.
it's the fact that the Commander in Chief is supposed to take difficult decisions with complex geopolitical ramifications that affect the lives of Americans in dangerous parts of the world. Trump literally behaved like a preschooler during the national anthem - that's a sign that something is very wrong with his mind.
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Eh. It's a sign that he's a childish fool. You didn't really need to invoke the mental illness angle in order to make your point, which is really: It's not good to have a childish fool as POTUS. And I totally agree with that point.

What I don't agree with is using the medical profession and illness to attack someone.
 
theprestige said:
Not all mental illness causes violent behavior, though. And we haven't really seen violent behavior from President Trump. What's the most violent thing he's done? Yelled at reporters? Kill terrorists?

If the Yale Group is right, we should be seeing regular violent outbursts, with a clearly worsening trend. But we're not. All of the "evidence" presented so far, of Trump's allegedly dangerous mental illness, hasn't shown any danger. The diction, the grammar and syntax, the facial expressions, the hair... Tell yourself this proves he's crazy, if you like. But don't pretend it proves he's dangerous.

Vote him out in November for being a bad president.

Impeach him for high crimes and misdemeanors, if you can manage it.

Start 25th Amendment proceedings because he's dangerously crazy? That just makes Dr Lee look like a clown. An unethical clown.
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There was Ivana's sworn deposition that he raped her in a fit of rage in 1990.
 
theprestige said:
I'm still waiting for someone to articulate the danger we're supposed to be concerned about.

Dr Lee has unequivocally called for the immediate removal of the President from office, on account of the danger he poses. I'd like to see some more in-depth analysis of what this danger is likely to be, why it hasn't manifested yet, and what's likely to cause it to manifest.

NPD is a reasonably well-understood condition, isn't it? A confident diagnosis of NPD should enable strong predictions about behavior. And not just typical hot-reading stuff like "he'll continue to say stupid stuff on Twitter." Actual medical insights not readily accessible to lay observers.
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What makes you think it hasn't manifested yet? Just because you ignore problematic issues with Trump's presidency that doesn't mean there are no problematic issues with Trump's presidency.
 
Cabbage said:
What makes you think it hasn't manifested yet? Just because you ignore problematic issues with Trump's presidency that doesn't mean there are no problematic issues with Trump's presidency.
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Please illustrate how the danger has manifested. Don't argue politics; tell us something dangerous he has done. Dangerous in the sense that a mental health professional would mean.
 
theprestige said:
I'm still waiting for someone to articulate the danger we're supposed to be concerned about.
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Currently he believes the new coronavirus will disappear in the summer.

Once again he has no clue it is summer in half the planet now. And he has ignorant ideas about pandemics. His NPD leads him to rely on his 'greatest knowledge of all time'. He is not likely to rely on experts at the CDC, which he also demonstrated when a few cases of ebola spread.

We may very possibly be in big trouble if he interferes with the public health response to the pandemic.


NPD is a reasonably well-understood condition, isn't it? A confident diagnosis of NPD should enable strong predictions about behavior. And not just typical hot-reading stuff like "he'll continue to say stupid stuff on Twitter." Actual medical insights not readily accessible to lay observers.
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We have that. You may not be paying attention.
 
Cabbage said:
What makes you think it hasn't manifested yet? Just because you ignore problematic issues with Trump's presidency that doesn't mean there are no problematic issues with Trump's presidency.
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I'm talking specifically about violence and danger. A "problematic" administration can be removed through elections or impeachment.

Dr Lee is calling for Trump's immediate removal, under the 25th amendment, because of how dangerous he supposedly is. I'm not seeing that degree of danger in his behavior, past or present.
 
xjx388 said:
Then why is there a long running thread with people telling me how obvious it is that Trump has a mental illness? Weird. Eh. It's a sign that he's a childish fool. You didn't really need to invoke the mental illness angle in order to make your point, which is really: It's not good to have a childish fool as POTUS. And I totally agree with that point.

What I don't agree with is using the medical profession and illness to attack someone.
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The anthem moment seemed a lot worse to me than childish behavior. It was the inability to maintain even minimal decorum for a 2-minute song. Was he flouting the rules? Or has he forgotten them?
 
Minoosh said:
The anthem moment seemed a lot worse to me than childish behavior. It was the inability to maintain even minimal decorum for a 2-minute song. Was he flouting the rules? Or has he forgotten them?
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Exactly. The President of the United States sometimes seems to have a similar level of understanding of appropriate behaviour to a preschooler.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
We all know that.

You are willfully refusing to recognize your straw man. [/discussion]
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If you know that, you are doing a poor job demonstrating it.

Trump is ignorant and incompetent. He probably colluded with foreign actors to enhance his election chances, he obstructed justice, he used campaign funds to pay off a woman he slept with, he used his authority to attack political rivals and he demonstrably has no sense of respect for the office he holds. Those actions? That's more than enough to make a case against him. What does mental illness add to the argument? As you say, you know that mental illness does not equal dangerous. I assume you also know that mental illness doesn't make a person bad or evil. Therefore, adding mental illness into the mix does not make a good case for his dangerousness or for his badness. All of those actions I outlined above would be bad whether or not he has a mental illness.

Yet here you are, continuing to insist that it's his specific mental illness that makes him dangerous/bad. You are refusing to see that, simply by putting "mental illness" and "dangerous" together to attack Trump, you are equating those two things.
 
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jimbob said:
Exactly. The President of the United States sometimes seems to have a similar level of understanding of appropriate behaviour to a preschooler.
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Interestingly, people who work for him feel the same way.
"He's like a bull seeing red," this person added. "There's just no getting through to him, and you can kiss your plans for the day goodbye because you're basically stuck looking after a 4-year-old now."
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https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...al-state-alabama-hurricane-dorian-2019-9?op=1

And there's this:
And therein lies the key: the core Trump dissonance is that he’s an elderly man who possesses the outward appearance and trappings of adulthood—and who occupies the public role we most strongly associate with adulthood—but who is on the inside predominantly infantile. It is that specific dissonance that is wholly novel on the political scene.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...hological-science-says-trump-is-four-year-old
 
xjx388 said:
Please illustrate how the danger has manifested. Don't argue politics; tell us something dangerous he has done. Dangerous in the sense that a mental health professional would mean.
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I would say an inability to learn from (or even acknowledge) his mistakes, along with a refusal to atone for his mistakes (such as firing people that testified against him) are dangerous abuses of our political systems.

Nitpicking in 3,2,.....
 
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theprestige said:
I'm talking specifically about violence and danger. A "problematic" administration can be removed through elections or impeachment.
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Oh, I see your mistake, then: You're hung up on the idea that danger must necessarily imply "violent".

It doesn't.



You're Welcome!
 
Cabbage said:
Oh, I see your mistake, then: You're hung up on the idea that danger must necessarily imply "violent".

It doesn't.



You're Welcome!
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But [ETA: anyway] his first wife gave a sworn deposition that he was violent
 
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Cabbage said:
Oh, I see your mistake, then: You're hung up on the idea that danger must necessarily imply "violent".

It doesn't.



You're Welcome!
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He does not seem averse to providing classified US info to other governments. I suggest that could be dangerous without being violent.
 
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