2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III

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SuburbanTurkey said:
Uninsured people would be thrilled to have VA level service.
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"We're the government and we can give you something that's better then nothing" is right up there with "Good to the Last Drop" and "Make Mine a Moxie" on all time great product slogans.

But it's probably better then "Ever been in the DMV and thought 'Man I wish I had to do this to get a Kidney!' Then universal healthcare is for you!"

Our government is not efficient or pleasent to deal with. Maybe other countries are different. Maybe in the wonderful utopias of Europe the DMVs there have foot massage and cigar lounges and dancing girls so going "Sure run my healthcare" makes sense there.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
"We're the government and we can give you something that's better then nothing" is right up there with "Good to the Last Drop" and "Make Mine a Moxie" on all time great product slogans.

But it's probably better then "Ever been in the DMV and thought 'Man I wish I had to do this to get a Kidney!' Then universal healthcare is for you!"

Our government is not efficient or pleasent to deal with. Maybe other countries are different. Maybe in the wonderful utopias of Europe the DMVs there have foot massage and cigar lounges and dancing girls so going "Sure run my healthcare" makes sense there.
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Utopias with cigar lounges huh? Nice one.
 
Obviously I was joking somewhat, but I have always honestly ask that question of other countries. Are your government just... better to interact with?

Here in the States government services like the DMV and IRS are running jokes with how inefficient they are. And like I said the VA is criminally incompetent and it's larger and services more people then a mid-sized country's "Universal Health Care."

ETA: Let me put it this way, my Democratic/Progressive friends.

Do you want universal health care?

Okay now ask yourself the question... do you want universal health care the way the Republicans are going run it when they are in charge?

These are not questions to just be dismissed with "Well other countries do it..."
 
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JoeMorgue said:
"We're the government and we can give you something that's better then nothing" is right up there with "Good to the Last Drop" and "Make Mine a Moxie" on all time great product slogans.

But it's probably better then "Ever been in the DMV and thought 'Man I wish I had to do this to get a Kidney!' Then universal healthcare is for you!"

Our government is not efficient or pleasent to deal with. Maybe other countries are different. Maybe in the wonderful utopias of Europe the DMVs there have foot massage and cigar lounges and dancing girls so going "Sure run my healthcare" makes sense there.
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For many, many, Americans being able to receive a level of healthcare up to and including a kidney transplant at the cost of time spent being aggravated by low-level beaurocrats is a dream come true.

As a boy (between the ages of 13 and 18) my Mother and I were on welfare. I remember the strain of spending all day with her down at the welfare office. Something I noticed, however, was that it only seemed to be the American born people who were miserable about the whole experience. Those who were clearly immigrants seemed pretty happy to wait all day in exchange for the means to live.
When someone complains about having to go through some aggravation in order to receive a great benefit, my mind returns to those experiences.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Obviously I was joking somewhat, but I have always honestly ask that question of other countries. Are your government just... better to interact with?

Here in the States government services like the DMV and IRS are running jokes with how inefficient they are. And like I said the VA is criminally incompetent and it's larger and services more people then a mid-sized country's "Universal Health Care."

ETA: Let me put it this way, my Democratic/Progressive friends.

Do you want universal health care?

Okay now ask yourself the question... do you want universal health care the way the Republicans are going run it when they are in charge?

These are not questions to just be dismissed with "Well other countries do it..."
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I have not found them to be any more aggravating than dealing with my private cell-phone provider, or auto insurance carrier.
My SO's health care insurer (private) is similarly frustrating to deal with. And if you have ever had a dispute with a bank you could find yourself with levels of aggravation that are off the scale.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Spend 10 minutes in a VA Office and it sure does.
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Why is that?

Is it mandatory, or do people choose to go to the VA Office because it is their best option?

If they did not have VA Office to go to, what would be the better alternative?

JoeMorgue said:
"We're the government and we can give you something that's better then nothing" is right up there with "Good to the Last Drop" and "Make Mine a Moxie" on all time great product slogans.

But it's probably better then "Ever been in the DMV and thought 'Man I wish I had to do this to get a Kidney!' Then universal healthcare is for you!"

Our government is not efficient or pleasent to deal with. Maybe other countries are different. Maybe in the wonderful utopias of Europe the DMVs there have foot massage and cigar lounges and dancing girls so going "Sure run my healthcare" makes sense there.
Click to expand...

Nobody claims European utopian healthcare. Literally nobody calls it that. It is a complete strawman argument to even suggest anyone is claiming cigar lounges and dancing girls.

My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that there are often a lot of people in America who are uninsured, often for no fault of their own, who, when faced with making important decisions about the health of themselves or their family, either have to go without important medical procedures, or have to go into debt or bankrupcty to pay for them.

Most forms of universal healthcare simply mean that those types of things do not happen.

That to me sounds like a good idea. Is this incorrect?
 
angrysoba said:
My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that there are often a lot of people in America who are uninsured, often for no fault of their own, who, when faced with making important decisions about the health of themselves or their family, either have to go without important medical procedures, or have to go into debt or bankrupcty to pay for them.
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A lot of people in America are homeless. Nobody is suggesting that everybody living in public housing is the only way to solve that problem.

It seems we somehow manage to fix, address, or at least... look at social problems via a "Help the people that need it, leave everyone else alone" mentality.

But healthcare has to, just has to, be a "Everybody get on the same boat" solution.

Why not... just give poor people the government healthcare and leave it at that? Why will that not work?

Why the "universal?"
 
JoeMorgue said:
"We're the government and we can give you something that's better then nothing" is right up there with "Good to the Last Drop" and "Make Mine a Moxie" on all time great product slogans.

But it's probably better then "Ever been in the DMV and thought 'Man I wish I had to do this to get a Kidney!' Then universal healthcare is for you!"

Our government is not efficient or pleasent to deal with. Maybe other countries are different. Maybe in the wonderful utopias of Europe the DMVs there have foot massage and cigar lounges and dancing girls so going "Sure run my healthcare" makes sense there.
Click to expand...

I mean, my private insurance company isn't pleasant or fun to deal with. Thinking you are covered then receiving an unexplained 5 figure medical bill in the mail isn't a good time. Spending time arguing with customer service reps to get the service you were promised isn't fun. The attacks on government inefficiency are often bad faith because they don't apply the same scrutiny to private businesses in the same sector.

Some of the most hated companies in this country are those offering privatized municipal services. ISPs, cell phone networks, power, water, gas, and private health care are all well hated. The idea that privatization will improve consumer approval is pretty absurd. Comcast can pry my municipal broadband internet from my cold, dead hands. I prefer USPS over UPS or Fedex by a wide margin.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
A lot of people in America are homeless. Nobody is suggesting that everybody living in public housing is the only way to solve that problem.

It seems we somehow manage to fix, address, or at least... look at social problems via a "Help the people that need it, leave everyone else alone" mentality.

But healthcare has to, just has to, be a "Everybody get on the same boat" solution.

Why not... just give poor people the government healthcare and leave it at that? Why will that not work?

Why the "universal?"
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The police and the fire department are also like that as well.

That said, my understanding of "universal" healthcare is that anyone can access it, not that you have to go through some means-testing in which the bureaucrats you fear most will decide that you are probably not poor enough to qualify if you can sell your house and car first.
 
angrysoba said:
The police and the fire department are also like that as well.

That said, my understanding of "universal" healthcare is that anyone can access it, not that you have to go through some means-testing in which the bureaucrats you fear most will decide that you are probably not poor enough to qualify if you can sell your house and car first.
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It's also important to note that social programs that are only available to the poor and otherwise needy tend to be the first to get cut when politicians want to prioritize something else. Universal programs are much harder to eliminate, politically speaking, because the entire population has an immediate vested interest.

Compare efforts to cut things like TANF or food stamps to cutting social security. SS is practically sacrosanct because every American benefits from it.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Why not... just give poor people the government healthcare and leave it at that? Why will that not work?

Why the "universal?"
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What is your definition of "poor"? How about an upper middle class family member that one day receives the news that they have cancer and their insurance either drops them or they are bankrupted by outrageous medical bills; does that qualify for "poor" for you?
 
angrysoba said:
Why is that?

Is it mandatory, or do people choose to go to the VA Office because it is their best option?

If they did not have VA Office to go to, what would be the better alternative?



Nobody claims European utopian healthcare. Literally nobody calls it that. It is a complete strawman argument to even suggest anyone is claiming cigar lounges and dancing girls.

My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that there are often a lot of people in America who are uninsured, often for no fault of their own, who, when faced with making important decisions about the health of themselves or their family, either have to go without important medical procedures, or have to go into debt or bankrupcty to pay for them.

Most forms of universal healthcare simply mean that those types of things do not happen.

That to me sounds like a good idea. Is this incorrect?
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It's incorrect. In the US, even with insurance you will likely go deeply into debt or bankrupt with any major medical issue.

Most people who go bankrupt from medical costs have insurance. Before Obamacare, my older brother would have just straight been allowed to die from his cancer. Even after, my friend with what is billed as 'top tier' health insurance from her bank job is going to end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt from her cancer.

No matter how profoundly broken you imagine health insurance and health care in the US, you're likely an order of magnitude off.
 
tyr_13 said:
It's incorrect. In the US, even with insurance you will likely go deeply into debt or bankrupt with any major medical issue.
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Bingo. When I worked for an oncology practice patients would come in confident in their wonderful, wonderful insurance that would cover 80% of the costs-- 80%, that's a lot!

Then they find out their total cost for their treatment is $400,000. So they only owed us $80,000. Will that be cash or check? Oh, you don't have $80K lying around? I guess you can sell your house. Don't own a house? Did you hope to retire, or send kids to college? Ha, ha, that was a cute dream but it's over now.
 
Anyone watch that leaked Igor Fruman recording where Trump says he was afraid Bernie would be Clinton's running mate?

The Trump team themselves thought it'd be tougher to take on Sanders than Clinton.
 
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