IG Horowitz report thread.

[ChristianProgressive]

Am I understanding this right in that the last time Page worked with the CIA, or had contact, was in 2011?



Are you still determined to be a CIA contact if you haven't had any contact with them in 5 years? Legit question, I don't know how being a CIA contact works.

Point of Order: Being a CIA contact does not preclude being a traitor.

 

[Ziggurat]

Nothing was fabricated. The IG said the investigation was both free of bias and warranted.

No. The IG report said that it didn't find documentary or testimonial evidence of bias. In other words, nobody said that they were biased. But that doesn't mean they weren't.

And yes, actually, an email WAS fabricated.

 

[Ziggurat]

Point of Order: Being a CIA contact does not preclude being a traitor.

True, but there's no evidence Page was. Not a single charge of criminal conduct has been made against him. Quite peculiar, isn't it?

 

[ChristianProgressive]

No. The IG report said that it didn't find documentary or testimonial evidence of bias. In other words, nobody said that they were biased. But that doesn't mean they weren't.

And yes, actually, an email WAS fabricated.

The Steele Dossier, which was what was being discussed, wasn't.

 

[Ziggurat]

The Steele Dossier, which was what was being discussed, wasn't.

You don't know that. You're assuming it.

 

[Brainster]

The FISA Court is a tad pissed off:

The frequency with which representations FBI personnel made to the court turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable.

I am amazed at the FBI lawyer actually doctoring an email from the CIA. Whoever did it is looking at hard time plus disbarment. Would love to see whom they donated to in the 2016 election.

 

[a_unique_person]

The FISA Court is a tad pissed off:



I am amazed at the FBI lawyer actually doctoring an email from the CIA. Whoever did it is looking at hard time plus disbarment. Would love to see whom they donated to in the 2016 election.

So what you are saying is that this is a systemic problem with FISA applications and not a one off problem targetted at Trump for bi-partisan purposes.

 

[fishbob]

Wow, way to ignore that the Steele dossier was a complete and utter fabrication that should never have been relied upon by anybody.

Two types of findings in the Steele dossier:
- Those that have been corroborated.
- Those that have not yet been corroborated.

To state that the dossier was "a complete and utter fabrication" is a complete and utter fabrication.

 

[fishbob]

The FBI didn't ask for it. The simplest explanation is that their interest in him was always pretextual, and what they really wanted was an excuse to go after the Trump campaign.

OK, that's probably the second simplest explanation, the simplest being the FBI is staffed by complete ******* morons. But despite the advantage of simplicity, I find that explanation less likely.

The simplest explanation is that the expired CIA link for Page did not seem particularly relevant.

 

[Ziggurat]

The simplest explanation is that the expired CIA link for Page did not seem particularly relevant.

It was relevant, because it wasn't expired at the time of contacts the FBI referenced in their FISA application. Has nobody actually been reading the report?

 

[Ziggurat]

Two types of findings in the Steele dossier:
- Those that have been corroborated.
- Those that have not yet been corroborated.

To state that the dossier was "a complete and utter fabrication" is a complete and utter fabrication.

Who here claimed it was?

 

[Ziggurat]

So what you are saying is that this is a systemic problem with FISA applications and not a one off problem targetted at Trump for bi-partisan purposes.

No. The FISC was specifically referencing the FBI behavior exposed by the IG report.

 

[Cabbage]

Who here claimed it was?

Brainster.


Try paying attention, bro.

 

[tanabear]

The Steele Dossier: The Appalling Fraud

It all goes back to this. The 2016 election was supposed to have been a coronation ceremony for the Queen Beetch of the Deep State, Hillary Clinton. When that didn't happen the Deep State used it powers to destroy Trump and those who worked on his campaign. You can call it the Deep State Strikes Back.

We should remember that the Steele Dossier was funded by the Clinton campaign and the DNC. So ultimately Hillary Clinton paid for a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign. Once Trump won they used the information from the fraudulent dossier to delegitimize his Presidency and to launch a coup to overthrow it.

Care to highlight where it says the FISA warrant relied on false information.

One of the more incriminating passages in the dossier concerns Carter Page being offered a bribe from Igor Sechin, the head of the Russian energy conglomerate Rosneft.

A second example provided by the Primary Sub-source was Report 134's description of a meeting allegedly held between Carter Page and Igor Sechin, the President of Rosneft, a Russian energy conglomerate. Report 134 stated that, according to a "close associate" of Sechin, Sechin offered "PAGE/ TRUMP's associates the brokerage of up to a 19 percent (privatized) stake in Rosneft" in return for the lifting of sanctions against the company.338 The Primary Sub-source told the FBI that one of his/her subsources furnished information for that part of Report 134 through a text message, but said that the sub-source never stated that Sechin had offered a brokerage interest to Page. We reviewed the texts and did not find any discussion of a bribe, whether as an interest in Rosneft itself or a "brokerage.
IG Report

So there was never any discussion of a bribe. It looks like Christopher Steele might have just made this part of the dossier up himself. The offer of the bribe might have come from his time investigating the FIFA scandal.

"In 2010, The Football Association (FA), England's domestic football governing body, organized a committee in hopes of hosting the 2018 or 2022 World Cups. The FA hired Steele's company to investigate FIFA (International Federation of Association Football). In advance of the FBI launching its 2015 FIFA corruption case, members of the FBI's Eurasian Organized Crime Task Force met with Steele in London to discuss allegations of possible corruption in FIFA. Steele's research indicated that Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin had rigged the bidding of the 2018 World Cups by employing bribery."

I wonder how much of the dossier was just a cut-and-paste job?

Nothing was fabricated. The IG said the investigation was both free of bias and warranted.

Nope. Much of it was completely fabricated. The question regarding bias has been spun by the media. The IG report states that they couldn't find any "documentary" or "testimonial" evidence that someone specifically stated we are starting this investigation because we hate Trump. Also the question of bias only pertains to the opening of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation on July 31, 2016. When it comes to the continuance of the investigation and the FISA warrants the question becomes more suspicious. Horowitz stated this himself when he was being questioned by Senator Leahy:

Senator Leahy: “Is it correct that you found no evidence that the investigation was motivated by anti-Trump or political bias?”

Horowitz: "We have found no evidence the initiation of the investigation was motivated by bias. It gets murkier – the question gets more challenging, Senator, when you get to the FISA and when you get to the attorney’s actions, for example.”

This entire episode of Trump-Russia collusion nonsense is just another indication that we live in a police-state liberal society.

 

[a_unique_person]

No. The FISC was specifically referencing the FBI behavior exposed by the IG report.

It was a pattern of behaviour. Not something they only did to Trump.

 

[Ziggurat]

It was a pattern of behaviour. Not something they only did to Trump.

It was a pattern of behavior exhibited in FISA applications for warrants to spy on Carter Page. That's the pattern that the court is now aware of.

If it's your contention that the FBI also exhibited that same pattern of behavior in many other FISA cases, well, that's an even more damning indictment of the FBI than I was going for.

ETA: since you obviously haven't bothered to actually look at what the court wrote, I'll quote a bit from it to make it clear exactly what the court is talking about. These are the opening lines of the Order:

This order responds to reports that personnel of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) provided false information to the National Security Division (NSD) of the Department of Justice, and withheld material information from NSD which was detrimental to the FBI's case, in connection with four applications to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) for authority to conduct electronic surveillance of a U.S. citizen named Carter W. Page.​

So they are very explicitly talking about the warrants for Carter Page, and only Carter Page. They aren't talking about some general pattern that applies to all FISA warrant applications. God help us all if they do this **** for all FISA applications.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Wow, way to ignore that the Steele dossier was a complete and utter fabrication that should never have been relied upon by anybody.

Do you believe this lie, or just spread it to help protect your dear leader?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I assume that tanabear and Ziggurat will write to their Congressmen to demand they reform the FISA process.

 

[Brainster]

Two types of findings in the Steele dossier:
- Those that have been corroborated.
- Those that have not yet been corroborated.

To state that the dossier was "a complete and utter fabrication" is a complete and utter fabrication.

You mean to say, "Those that had already been corroborated."

ETA: I see that some are stuck on the "completely fabricated" adjective that I placed in front of the Steele dossier. I hereby amend my loose phrasing to say that the Steele dossier was made up of already available facts and a whole lot of golden showers of bullcrap to mix excremental metaphors.

 

[Ziggurat]

I assume that tanabear and Ziggurat will write to their Congressmen to demand they reform the FISA process.

Don't need to. The DOJ Inspector General already advised that, and FISC is already demanding that.