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The Trump Presidency: Part 18

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Skeptic Ginger said:
Did you miss the parts about gerrymandering and voter suppressing voter ID laws? How about the part where the caging letters went to selected groups? Did you look to see what voter caging is?

How about the fact Republicans are running that legislature and voter registration office?

These are the guys that lost the governorship to a Democrat so they moved legislation in a hurry through the State Congress to block as many of the Governor's powers as they could.

NY Times, sorry I can't link to it in anonymous view: Dec 2018: "Wisconsin Republicans Defiantly Move to Limit the Power of Incoming Democrats."

These are the guys you want to give the benefit of the doubt to as maybe just cleaning up the voter roles for legit reasons? :rolleyes:
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No. I'm talking about, in particular, the guys who actually brought the lawsuit to "enforce the law" and the judge ruling that the law should be enforced. As I touched on right after, though, even if they were acting in an upright fashion, there was plenty of wrongdoing going on surrounding them and creating the situation. That very much includes that the relevant law was made in the first place.
 
SezMe said:
I think it can be statistically demonstrated that the approach used by Wisconsin disenfranchises a greater proportion of Dems than GOPers.
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It wouldn't surprise me one bit but nothing in the original article posted suggested Dems were being targeted. That is what I based my post on.
 
Aridas said:
No. I'm talking about, in particular, the guys who actually brought the lawsuit to "enforce the law" and the judge ruling that the law should be enforced. As I touched on right after, though, even if they were acting in an upright fashion, there was plenty of wrongdoing going on surrounding them and creating the situation. That very much includes that the relevant law was made in the first place.
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You mean the people discriminated against? :boggled:

Why did you quote me? I was responding to this:
It looks to me like they're just enforcing already existing laws.
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That's about the people who purged the rolls and who don't deserve any benefit of the doubt.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Why did you quote me? I was responding to this:

That's about the people who purged the rolls and who don't deserve any benefit of the doubt.
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And I was addressing your comment about covering their asses. But then, unless I misread something, the timeline is something more along the lines of -

1. Lists that would give reason to believe that a person moved were checked.
2. Verification mails were sent out to people from those lists under explicit guidance to not immediately remove those who failed to return the mailings in 30 days. There are plenty of technicalities to potentially exploit here, but they can at least plausibly try to claim that it's not quite voter caging. Remember, voter purges are a useful and pretty much necessary part of bureaucratic upkeep. The abuse and misuse of them to harm political opponents and intentionally disenfranchise large numbers of legitimate voters is the actual problem, not the purge itself.
3. Right-wing group pushes forward 3 right-wingers to serve their agenda, wittingly or not, and force the removal of those who hadn't returned the mailings in 30 days, because that's the law.
4. Judge rules that the written law should be upheld.

There are three groups to focus on here when it comes to wrong or potential wrong. First, the lawmakers who made the problematic laws - the ones that are the ones that you rightfully want to condemn for most of the voter suppression tactics that are put in play. Second, the people sending out the mails. This group only has potential wrongs, based on the information there. Using lists that would give reason to believe that person has moved as a basis is not inherently wrong or discriminatory. If they picked and chose or went into the endeavor with the intent to hurt Democrats' chances, then there was wrong, of course. As in Ohio, though, the people at the top are not necessarily the actual bad actors when it comes to serious wrongdoing. To be quite clear, given the right-wing nonsense bubble, there are plenty of Republicans that simply don't know about the numerous and various shenanigans that the less savory GOP members engage in. Third, that right-wing group. Fairly certainly, they intentionally want to harm the Democrats, by the look of it. I can't comment on the 3 people that they pushed forward beyond that those people could either be in on it or have effectively been duped - again, because of how effective the right-wing nonsense bubble actually is.
 
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Trump Tweets

“Here in America it will be the same victory as BREXIT, but even more so. In the U.S., while all of this has been going on, the Impeachment, the obstruction, the resistance, President Trump has managed to deliver not just promises, but a record which adds up to one.....

....of the most successful presidencies in history. Just in the last few days, incredible jobs numbers, giant trade deals, help for working families, and much more. Over the last 3 years, unemployment falling, earnings rising, criminal justice reform, the heartland revived,....

....energy independence, manufacturing resilience, illegal immigration coming down, the Wall going up, China confronted, the caliphate defeated, NAFTA renegotiated, our military rebuilt, NATO paying more, regulations costing less,.......and much more. This is why they’re....

....impeaching him. They hate the fact, above all, that this president is delivering. Substantial policy results for the working Americans who put him in the White House, and they can’t beat him in a fair fight next year.” @NextRevFNC

@SteveHiltonx Thank you Steve!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Hard to believe that @FoxNews will be interviewing sleazebag & totally discredited former FBI Director James Comey, & also corrupt politician Adam “Shifty” Schiff. Fox is trying sooo hard to be politically correct, and yet they were totally shut out from the failed Dem debates!
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You heard it here first, folks: Fox News is not right-wing enough!
 
Belz... said:
You heard it here first, folks: Fox News is not right-wing enough!
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...I think logger said something similar about Fox not being right-wing enough. And others who post somewhat similarly here. Either way, this would hardly be the first time that Trump had a spat with Fox.
 
Stacyhs said:
Not necessarily. The rolls are to be purged of those voters who haven't complied with Wisconsin law.
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I'd bet that said law was carefully crafted to benefit conservatives.

Delphic Oracle said:
Worse, he sees it as some kind of currency to be repaid in kind.
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That's because he has always dealth with the world like a mafia boss.

You scratch my back, I scratch yours.

Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets


Crooked Hillary caught again. She is a total train wreck!

Kimberley Strassel
@KimStrassel
Make sure family and friends see IG report: Clinton didn't just invite foreign influence in 2016; she paid for it. Her team funneled Russian dossier lies to the FBI, for her political gain. Americans deserve free and fair elections. If only press would hold her accountable. https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1205149473091072008
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"Again"? That's an old one, and it's an understatement to say that it plays fast and loose with the facts.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It's called voter caging. It would be fine if these letters were sent statewide. But that's not where they were sent:

Crooks and Liars: Wisconsin Republicans Just Can't Get Enough Voter Suppression


This is where the letters went:Apparently the GOP found another way to identify the poor and blacks, they searched different data bases for people who reported a new address to another agency. I hope that backfires and gets more people to register.

Then there's this re appeal:

Meanwhile, more scary stuff: PR Watch: Koch, Bradley Money Fuels Trump's Right-Wing Echo Chamber
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Isn't that illegal?

If no one stops them, isn't this unduly undermining the democratic process?
 
The Man said:
Sure, but I was remembering when he was talking about trying it, it went over well so he stuck with it. Which seems to be "drain the swamp". So it seems I was mis-remembering.
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Ah yes, with the admission "...and then I started saying it like I meant it!"
 
Aridas said:
I'm actually willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the individuals directly involved, pending further information, odd as it might seem. Much less so to the people using them, however wittingly, though, if the individuals actually are sincere in their efforts to increase electoral integrity.
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The electoral integrity is threatened by people who move and don't update registration?

This is a "solution searching for a problem."

If your ID and the records don't match, you get a provisional ballot and follow up to confirm.

In other words, this (non-existent) problem already has a fix. Blasting the voter rolls with demographic skew doesn't get any more "benefit of the doubt" unless you willfully ignore 20 years of examples of this tactic.

Calling blatant disenfranchisement "electoral integrity" is entirely bass ackwards.
 
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Trump Tweets

READ THE TRANSCRIPTS! The Impeachment Hoax is the greatest con job in the history of American politics! The Fake News Media, and their partner, the Democrat Party, are working overtime to make life for the United Republican Party, and all it stands for, as difficult as possible!

Approval Rating in Republican Party = 95%, a Record! Overall Approval Rating = 51%. Think of where I’d be without the never ending, 24 hour a day, phony Witch Hunt, that started 3 years ago!
 
Trump Tweets

I look very much forward to debating whoever the lucky person is who stumbles across the finish line in the little watched Do Nothing Democrat Debates. My record is so good on the Economy and all else, including debating, that perhaps I would consider more than 3 debates.....

....The problem is that the so-called Commission on Presidential Debates is stacked with Trump Haters & Never Trumpers. 3 years ago they were forced to publicly apologize for modulating my microphone in the first debate against Crooked Hillary. As President, the debates are up...

....to me, and there are many options, including doing them directly & avoiding the nasty politics of this very biased Commission. I will make a decision at an appropriate time but in the meantime, the Commission on Presidential Debates is NOT authorized to speak for me (or R’s)!
 
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Horatius said:
Oh god, I didn't even notice the QAnon nonsense. Have we become this inured to stupidity?!?
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So either he's too stupid to recognize widely used conspiracy tags, is using them intentionally to troll, is actually honestly supporting and promoting them, or just doesn't care.

If anyone wants to unpack which option is worse have at it, I don't have it in me.
 
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