Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking

[Information Analyst]

In an interview to be televised tonight, Prince Andrew has no recollection of that woman, and says seeing Epstein after his conviction was letting the side down, but due to being too honourable.

I thought that was a rather crap way of saying, "he was my friend, and he'd done his time." That's still desperately naïve, of course.

I think it’s telling that he says he doesn’t remember, rather than that he’s never met, Virginia Giuffre. Surely he has a record of his whereabouts on any time and date, and could simply say where he was on the date in question?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...taying-with-jeffrey-epstein-right-thing-to-do

The photo does show that they met, but in itself that doesn't corroborate the rather extensive series of events she claims. If he met her briefly at Maxwell's house (no pun - and I assume that's where it was taken, as she's also in it), but not again, and certainly never had sex with her, he could plausibly say he doesn't remember her out of all the thousands of people he's met. I would tend to think that if he did have sex with her, even just the once at a single and only meeting, he'd remember it.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

He was even photographed holding her by the waist in the presence of Ghislaine Maxwell, evidently at one of her properties.

I guess that's not memorable enough, because he's been sleeping with so many teenage girls over the years that he can't even hope to keep track of each one.

There is an actual photograph of him sleeping with a teenage girl?

ETA: The photo of him with a fully clothed girl in the article just linked that Information Analyst just asked about? How does that establish that he slept with her?

 

[Arcade22]

There is an actual photograph of him sleeping with a teenage girl?

ETA: The photo of him with a fully clothed girl in the article just linked that Information Analyst just asked about? How does that establish that he slept with her?

See here's the thing: important and prominent public officials who's reputation is of outright national importance are kept track off all the time. Where they are, where they are going, who they are going to see, what they are there for, who they met and what happened there.

All of that is recorded precisely to shoot down these kind of allegations before they are even reported in the news. Blackmail, extortion, espionage, terrorism, theft, kidnappings and such crimes can often be prevented in this simple fashion.

The fact that he claims he "doesn't recall" should be completely irrelevant because there should've been a paper trail that could explain why he was photographed holding a 17 year old alleged prostitute and victim of sexual exploitation, while their pimp looks on in the background, allegedly at said pimps London property.

He's not facing criminal charges in a court of law, but he and the Royal House spin-doctors should be able to convincing dispute the veracity of the allegations instead of simply falling back on bad memory.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I guess that's not memorable enough, because he's been sleeping with so many teenage girls over the years that he can't even hope to keep track of each one.

See here's the thing: important and prominent public officials who's reputation is of outright national importance are kept track off all the time.

So you think that his monitors have witnessed him having illegal sex with "so many teenage girls over the years"?

 

[theprestige]

Unless he was a virgin when he married, his monitors must have been involved with him in at least one sexual encounter.

 

[Arcade22]

So you think that his monitors have witnessed him having illegal sex with "so many teenage girls over the years"?

I never said anything about him doing anything illegal and even explicitly pointed out that he's not on trial for anything. That said, if he was engaging in casual sexual encounters with strangers, it's almost certain that his minders would have an idea of what he was up to. This is one of the reason why many VIPs can't stand the restrictions placed on them by bodyguards and personal minders, such as the Swedish PM Olof Palme who was shot to death by persons unknown in large part due to his dislike of bodyguards.

According to his own statement in the BBC interview he said that being in the kind of casual and informal photograph he was in would be something unusual for him, which makes his inability to remember even more unconvincing. How many teenage girls have had their photos taken with his hands on their bare midriff?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I never said anything about him doing anything illegal ...

You just ******* quoted me quoting you saying he been doing something illegal for years. And what the heck would be there be to deny if it weren't for the illegal allegations? There aren't any non-illegal allegations here as far as I can tell. Obviously no point in talking to you.

 

[angrysoba]

His alibi blows his cover. He says he doesn’t sweat. You know what else doesn’t sweat? Lizards! David Icke was right the whole time!

 

[Vixen]

So divorcé Andrew has sex with a seventeen-year-old. That is not paedophilia, might be illegal to have sex with a 17-yr-old in the USA but not in the UK. Going to Tramps, dancing, dining: can't see Prince Andrew has done anything heinous there. I doubt very much he would be aware she was a prostitute. However, as Ghislaine Maxwell (I note it's pronounced G'laine) is a rather shady character, he might have twigged she was some kind of Madam supplying escorts. In itself, paying for an escort is not a crime.

 

[angrysoba]

So divorcé Andrew has sex with a seventeen-year-old. That is not paedophilia, might be illegal to have sex with a 17-yr-old in the USA but not in the UK. Going to Tramps, dancing, dining: can't see Prince Andrew has done anything heinous there. I doubt very much he would be aware she was a prostitute. However, as Ghislaine Maxwell (I note it's pronounced G'laine) is a rather shady character, he might have twigged she was some kind of Madam supplying escorts. In itself, paying for an escort is not a crime.

Or Epstein being a convicted sex offender, he might have twigged that hanging around with him was a bad idea.

But wait... he has denied everything. Are you saying you don’t believe him? Yeah, me too.

 

[Arcade22]

You just ******* quoted me quoting you saying he been doing something illegal for years. And what the heck would be there be to deny if it weren't for the illegal allegations? There aren't any non-illegal allegations here as far as I can tell. Obviously no point in talking to you.

Having sex with a 17 year old is not illegal in the UK. It might be if it took place in the US, depending on the state in question, and if it took place in air that would potentially make the legal situation less clear. Paying a 17 year old for sex would be illegal in the UK and elsewhere, although from everything I've read he didn't pay her anything, rather Epstein paid her after the fact.

It would be very difficult to prove that he knowingly had sex with a minor who was unable to say no, or who had sex with him knowing they would be paid by a third party afterwards.

He's in no legal jeopardy since the allegations against him have been more or less known since 2010, which makes him consenting to this interview quite strange, but i shouldn't have to point out why his actions would be highly shameful even if it were proven his actions were within the law... but i guess i have no choice: Having sex with a prostitute that is effectively forced to have sex with you isn't a very nice thing to do, even if you are only aware of their lack of freedom after the fact. Now add the fact that she was underage and it gets even worse. I would honestly have been shocked if he didn't deny it.

 

[Arcade22]

Or Epstein being a convicted sex offender, he might have twigged that hanging around with him was a bad idea.

But wait... he has denied everything. Are you saying you don’t believe him? Yeah, me too.

Also his home in NYC was just a very convenient place to stay in, that's it. Even the Duke of York has trouble securing decent lodgings there...

 

[Vixen]

Or Epstein being a convicted sex offender, he might have twigged that hanging around with him was a bad idea.

But wait... he has denied everything. Are you saying you don’t believe him? Yeah, me too.

Not being funny, but that photo of Andrew with his hand supposedly around Virginia's waist does look photoshopped as his right outline looks to be in sharp relief and his left arm to be ultra-long behind her back.

What is Virginia's motive for dragging Andrew into this? Gold-digger. Nasty.

 

[Information Analyst]

And what the heck would be there be to deny if it weren't for the illegal allegations? There aren't any non-illegal allegations here as far as I can tell.

Having sex with a seventeen year old is not illegal in the UK, nor a sixteen year old, for that matter. It may be creepy, embarrassing, or whatever, but it's not illegal.

 

[angrysoba]

Not being funny, but that photo of Andrew with his hand supposedly around Virginia's waist does look photoshopped as his right outline looks to be in sharp relief and his left arm to be ultra-long behind her back.

What is Virginia's motive for dragging Andrew into this? Gold-digger. Nasty.

So you think she is making it up?

Well, Andrew has some alibis that will surely be able to be verified or falsified. He says it was unusual enough for him to go to Pizza Express in Woking to remember it. Presumably it would have been memorable enough for the plebs who work there to know if he came in and whether or not that date can be checked etc.. similarly he claims never to have ordered an alcoholic drink at the bar he went to. I wonder if anyone can contradict that. Ditto the inability to sweat...

 

[Vixen]

So you think she is making it up?

Well, Andrew has some alibis that will surely be able to be verified or falsified. He says it was unusual enough for him to go to Pizza Express in Woking to remember it. Presumably it would have been memorable enough for the plebs who work there to know if he came in and whether or not that date can be checked etc.. similarly he claims never to have ordered an alcoholic drink at the bar he went to. I wonder if anyone can contradict that. Ditto the inability to sweat...

So she kept the photograph? Why?

There's no fool like an old fool but being a member of the Royal Family, he is a target for people looking for rich pickings.

I wouldn't be surprised if his friend Ghislaine has an entire album of the rich and famous with 'her' girls.

The Royal Family are not known for their great intellect and in hindsight his friendship with lecherous Epstein was plain stupid. However, it doesn't make Andrew guilty by association.

 

[Arcade22]

What is Virginia's motive for dragging Andrew into this? Gold-digger. Nasty.

Although its entirely plausible that she has exaggerated the amount of duress she was under as well as her general "victmhood", the simple fact is that if he had sex with her he, at best, unwittingly participated in the sexual exploitation of a minor even if he is unable to be prosecuted for it because of one or more reasons.

If he didn't have sex with her, the fact that he was pictured together with her is enough to question whether he knew or should've known that something inappropriate was going on. Many people had commented on the fact that Epstein was surrounded by many young women, some who looked underage. He should've reacted to this and realized it was inappropriate and unbecoming of someone of his stature to associate with this very questionable and dubious individual, who surrounded himself with paid prostitutes without much shame.

It would've been no different if he was hanging around with some drug baron who had stacks of 100$ bills and guns laying all over the place.

 

[Vixen]

Although its entirely plausible that she has exaggerated the amount of duress she was under as well as her general "victmhood", the simple fact is that if he had sex with her he, at best, unwittingly participated in the sexual exploitation of a minor even if he is unable to be prosecuted for it because of one or more reasons.

If he didn't have sex with her, the fact that he was pictured together with her is enough to question whether he knew or should've known that something inappropriate was going on. Many people had commented on the fact that Epstein was surrounded by many young women, some who looked underage. He should've reacted to this and realized it was inappropriate and unbecoming of someone of his stature to associate with this very questionable and dubious individual, who surrounded himself with paid prostitutes without much shame.

It would've been no different if he was hanging around with some drug baron who had stacks of 100$ bills and guns laying all over the place.

I see that. His explanation was that, 'not being grand' but he was used to seeing all sorts of staff walking around Buckingham Palace. You could say, in which way was Epstein's mansion anything like Buckingham Palace. However, if these so-called 'sex slaves' were all around the seventeen-year old mark, then it wouldn't be that remarkable if Epstein's 'business' was set up like a typical office or hotel-like workplace.

You have to understand upper-class mentality towards their friends. When Andrew claims he was merely being 'honourable' when he paid a visit in 2010 to Epstein after four years' silence it's easy for the tabloids to sneer, given his pal had been imprisoned for 'unbecoming' behaviour. However, there is a strong sense of loyalty, no doubt coming from the military (closing ranks), of sticking by your friends no matter what. People couldn't understand why Lord Lucan's friends helped him to escape, sheltered him and stood by him, despite his having murdered the nanny and beaten up his wife, in an unsavoury custody battle. It is the way these people think, so I can see where Andrew is coming from there.


As Scott Fitzgerald said in the opening lines of The Great Gatsby, the rich are not like the rest of us. Substitute the words, 'upper class' and you get the drift.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

So divorcé Andrew has sex with a seventeen-year-old. That is not paedophilia, might be illegal to have sex with a 17-yr-old in the USA but not in the UK.

Having sex with a 17 year old is not illegal in the UK.

Having sex with a seventeen year old is not illegal in the UK, nor a sixteen year old, for that matter.

Uh, guys. Miss important details much? There is a very specific 17 year old at the center of these allegations. The particular 17 old claims to have been a sex slave sold for sex, via a pimp, working for a human trafficking ring, and working under a threat of violence or death.

 

[Vixen]

Uh, guys. Miss important details much? There is a very specific 17 year old at the center of these allegations. The particular 17 old claims to have been a sex slave sold for sex, via a pimp, working for a human trafficking ring, and working under a threat of violence or death.

Playing Devil's Advocate here but how can anyone force a US citizen onto a plane to London and then force her to attend a mansion in Belgravia to have sex with a senior member of the Royal Family? So the woman was paid by Epstein and no doubt handsomely. Help me out here.