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House Impeachment Inquiry

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Jordan is, once again, bringing up the fact that Trump was giving Ukraine more lethal weapons than Obama as if that somehow indicates he couldn't be shaking them down. Yet, doesn't that make Zelensky even more desperate to keep that kind of aid coming? That Trump is petty and vindictive has been made quite clear by his past actions and staying on his good side means not saying "no" to him. We've seen what happens when that happens.

Jordan's 'outrage' is laughable. He's grandstanding for his Dear Leader. What a lapdog.
 
Paul2 said:
The Republican questioning sounds exactly like what a defense attorney might do. The only problem is that the Republicans are not the President’s attorneys, they are public servants.
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Well, to be fair, the democrats basically are serving as "prosecutors" 100%. I guess the fact that Trump's definitely super guilty and everyone knows it matters a lot, but this whole televised deal is not really an "investigation" in a normal sense.

If even 5% of the anonymous sources talking about this stuff are right, none of these republicans feel like they have any political choice but to oppose impeachment and defend Trump, because going against Trump will end your career as a R congresscritter now. But the slimeballs don't have the moral fiber to risk their jobs or do the right thing and or quit the party and speak the truth.

Even though our political ideologies are opposite, I have more respect than ever for Justin Amash right now. He quit the republican party over this BS recently.
 
Wolrab said:
The Republicans are serving the public by showing this is a sham.
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I bet you don't even ask yourself just why Trump ordered everyone he could not to testify before a legally held hearing. People who do nothing wrong don't try to prevent others from supporting that. People who do something wrong, don't want others exposing that.
 
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kellyb said:
Well, to be fair, the democrats basically are serving as "prosecutors" 100%.
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But prosecutors have added responsibilities (to the truth, to the openness of discovery, and to justice) that defense attorneys do not have. But your point holds to some extent.
 
kellyb said:
Well, to be fair, the democrats basically are serving as "prosecutors" 100%. I guess the fact that Trump's definitely super guilty and everyone knows it matters a lot, but this whole televised deal is not really an "investigation" in a normal sense.

If even 5% of the anonymous sources talking about this stuff are right, none of these republicans feel like they have any political choice but to oppose impeachment and defend Trump, because going against Trump will end your career as a R congresscritter now. But the slimeballs don't have the moral fiber to risk their jobs or do the right thing and or quit the party and speak the truth.

Even though our political ideologies are opposite, I have more respect than ever for Justin Amash right now. He quit the republican party over this BS recently.
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Agreed. The GOP know damn good and well what would happen to them if they don't support Trump. They saw what happened to Amash and what happens to anyone, GOP or Democrat, who crosses Trump.

ETA: Jordan is spending the great majority of his time making grandstanding speeches instead of asking questions. He also repeats himself incessantly going over the same talking points. He makes me want to puke.
 
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I am watching the same proceedings as the rest of you. Unlike the rest of you, I have cast a critical ear to the thousands of "smoking guns" alleged against the president that have been shown to be lies and quickly forgotten by the left. I see duplicity and special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket. I am not even sure this is a lawful hearing. I see the Democrats attempting a coup. This will not end well for them at the polls. I see multiple investigations that have gone in Trump's favor only to have the results spun to say the exact opposite of the findings.
 
Wolrab said:
I am watching the same proceedings as the rest of you. Unlike the rest of you, I have cast a critical ear to the thousands of "smoking guns" alleged against the president that have been shown to be lies and quickly forgotten by the left. I see duplicity and special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket. I am not even sure this is a lawful hearing. I see the Democrats attempting a coup. This will not end well for them at the polls. I see multiple investigations that have gone in Trump's favor only to have the results spun to say the exact opposite of the findings.
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Not a lawful hearing? Based on what?

Further...I haven't seen things go Trump's way because of the facts of the situation. It seems like it is mostly the office's power to avoid inquiries.
 
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Wolrab said:
I am watching the same proceedings as the rest of you. Unlike the rest of you, I have cast a critical ear to the thousands of "smoking guns" alleged against the president that have been shown to be lies and quickly forgotten by the left. I see duplicity and special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket. I am not even sure this is a lawful hearing. I see the Democrats attempting a coup. This will not end well for them at the polls. I see multiple investigations that have gone in Trump's favor only to have the results spun to say the exact opposite of the findings.
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OK. That explains it. It's not a different hearing you're watching, you're just in an alternate universe.
 
Everything I've heard out of the Republican reps is "whistleblower! whistleblower! whistleblower, Biden!!!, whistleblower!"
 
It's almost over.

Nune's "closing statement" didn't sound very confident. He doesn't seem to feel like this went well for them.

He, of course, circled back to "Ukranian meddling" in 2016, so the dems need to practice ways of saying "That's obvious that most Ukranians didn't want Trump to be elected, because Trump loves the authoritarian nuclear superpower which had just invaded their country, and y'all didn't even give a **** about any of that so-called Ukrainian interference stuff till Trump was caught in the "missiles for anti-Biden headlines" deal and needed a fallback pretext of legitimate foreign policy, and have apparently decided that's the best you got. So...next?"
 
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Wolrab said:
I am watching the same proceedings as the rest of you. Unlike the rest of you, I have cast a critical ear to the thousands of "smoking guns" alleged against the president that have been shown to be lies and quickly forgotten by the left. I see duplicity and special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket. I am not even sure this is a lawful hearing. I see the Democrats attempting a coup. This will not end well for them at the polls. I see multiple investigations that have gone in Trump's favor only to have the results spun to say the exact opposite of the findings.
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Explain exactly how this could be a coup? If Donald Trump is impeached, Clinton doesn't become president. Mike Pence does. How exactly is this a coup?
 
Wolrab said:
I am watching the same proceedings as the rest of you. Unlike the rest of you, I have cast a critical ear to the thousands of "smoking guns" alleged against the president that have been shown to be lies and quickly forgotten by the left. I see duplicity and special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket. I am not even sure this is a lawful hearing. I see the Democrats attempting a coup. This will not end well for them at the polls. I see multiple investigations that have gone in Trump's favor only to have the results spun to say the exact opposite of the findings.
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What? I thought by a certain point that Russiagate had almost turned into q-anon for liberals.

How in the world are you watching this and seeing "special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket"?

What about what we just watched had anything to do with media bias?
 
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Wolrab said:
A perfect example of intolerance of any other viewpoint and the desire to live in an echo chamber.
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Nope. I'm intolerant of a view that is not based on reality. Several of your claims are not based on facts. Duplicity? Like what? Special privilege? Like what? A press firmly in Dems' pocket? More "fake news" nonsense.
A coup? This is a legal impeachment hearing based on the testimony of several highly credible witnesses. A coup means to overturn a government in order to replace it with one of your own. How does Pence becoming president if Trump is convicted qualify as a 'coup'?
The Mueller investigation revealed several instances of obstruction of justice by Trump. He was not indicted because he could NOT be due to DOJ policy. As for 'spinning', that was Barr and Trump who repeatedly claimed Mueller found no evidence of obstruction. It was clearly stated in the report that he was NOT EXONERATED.

I'll tolerate a different viewpoint as long as it's not founded on false claims.

ETA: I don't tolerate conspiracy theories and yours is based on a CT that the Dems are attempting a coup, that the press is out to get Trump, and that the Mueller investigation was a 'witch hunt'.
 
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Wolrab said:
I am watching the same proceedings as the rest of you. Unlike the rest of you, I have cast a critical ear to the thousands of "smoking guns" alleged against the president that have been shown to be lies and quickly forgotten by the left. I see duplicity and special privilege given to the Democrats by a press firmly in their pocket. I am not even sure this is a lawful hearing. I see the Democrats attempting a coup. This will not end well for them at the polls. I see multiple investigations that have gone in Trump's favor only to have the results spun to say the exact opposite of the findings.
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One of many facts that renders this diatribe absurd is the breadth and depth of the pushback to Trump coming from his own team. Nothing like this has ever happened.

There's a mind-boggling list of current/former cabinet members, generals, senators, reps, aids, and otherwise influential Republicans who are part of this "Democratic" opposition. How do you explain that? Marianas State?
 
Stacyhs said:
ETA: I don't tolerate conspiracy theories and yours is based on a CT that the Dems are attempting a coup, that the press is out to get Trump, and that the Mueller investigation was a 'witch hunt'.
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It's not even a CT. CT's are usually creative and often somewhat respectable, even if wrong. I think, at least.

That stuff is just parroting political PR talking points which were intentionally crafted to deceive.
 
Jordan keeps saying that Ukraine didn't know about the money being withheld at the time of the July 25 phone call. But, Ukraine did know they had not received it as of July 25[/I]. Immediately after Zelensky thanks Trump for the US's support and that they're ready to buy more weapons, including the much needed Javelin missiles, Trump says he'd "like you to do us a favor" and then requests Zelensky to "look into" Biden's son. Anyone with more than half a brain could put that together and figure out what Trump was really saying.
 
Stacyhs said:
Sheesh. The Repubs are actually saying that Zelensky's denial of any quid pro quo is evidence it didn't happen. What do they expect him to say? "Yes, it happened"? We all know how petty and vindictive Trump is. Zelensky had no real choice other than to deny it unless he wanted Trump to take out his anger on Ukraine. Zelensky knows he has to deal with Trump for at least another 14 month and maybe another 5 years.

Zelensky is in the same position as an abused wife who tells the police here husband didn't beat the crap out of her because she's scared to death of the repercussions.
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It would also make him look weak to publicly announce that he was beholden to the whims of a foreign head of state. It wouldn't be a good way to remain president.
 
Impeachment is a process put forth within the Constitution. How in the name of Zeus's butthole can that be a "Coup?"

It's like calling "Being voted out of office" a coup which... at this point wouldn't surprise me if Trump or his followers actually try to do.
 
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