House Impeachment Inquiry

[acbytesla]

I already raised Kushner in a previous post. My comments were about Hunter Biden, not the Trump kids.

I agree that nepotism in this administration is a shame. That is irrelevant to my point.

If, as others have suggested, Biden was well qualified, then my premise is false.

Hunter Biden is qualified considering his previous positions and education. But there is no way to know if any or every one of those opportunities wasn't at least a byproduct of being a Senator's and then a VP's son.

 

[acbytesla]

Gaining advantage due to family is nigh unavoidable. What makes this look bad is that it was a company in a foreign nation while Biden was VP. It gives a bad appearance.

I think you're right that you and I are in agreement more or less.

The bizarre part of this though is no one can point to an act by Joe Biden or Obama for that matter that unfairly helped Burisma. In fact, the act of getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired seems to have the opposite effect.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

No doubt Hunter put Joe in a difficult position - but that is what kids do.
It is not in Joe's power to stop his grownup son from taking certain jobs.
The only responsibility Joe has is to insulate himself from what his son is doing in a somewhat sketchy position.
It is unfair that offspring of the rich and powerful can easily get cushy jobs. But this in and of itself isn't corrupt.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The bizarre part of this though is no one can point to an act by Joe Biden or Obama for that matter that unfairly helped Burisma. In fact, the act of getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired seems to have the opposite effect.

Yes, and the Trumpublicans never mention the fact that Hunter was hired after Burisma was in trouble for corruption, after they supposedly cleaned up their act.

 

[phiwum]

The bizarre part of this though is no one can point to an act by Joe Biden or Obama for that matter that unfairly helped Burisma. In fact, the act of getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired seems to have the opposite effect.

Sure. I'm not saying that any national interests were compromised.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Except it really doesn't. How is this anything but SOP? I can show you Congress person's children, President's children etc getting high powered jobs. From the Bush twins to Chelsea Clinton. How is Eric Kushner qualified to DO ANYTHING. Yet he's been tasked to DO EVERYTHING.

What you know is Hunter sold himself as the Vice President's son. Which is wrong, but hardly surprising and unfortunately not illegal. What we dont know and have no evidence for is Joe Biden doing anything for his son's positions.

I worked for years as a Sales rep and would send gifts to influencers at my customers. And they were not cheap gifts sometimes costing thousands. I also expensed those gifts. I remember my moron boss balking at one of them because the big order we were expecting from that customer was slow in coming. He wanted to make it some kind of quid pro quo.

I had to make it clear to the dummy that one might argue sending or accepting the gifts was ethically questionable, but what he was suggesting made it definitely unethical and probably illegal.

SOP? Standard operating procedure meaning they hired him, Joe had no part in it before or after? Sure.

There's nothing illegal, Hunter could have been (probably was) acting without any favors from Dad.

But this went on for years, multiple companies, millions of dollars. Joe either didn't think it was a problem or thought it was legal so, so what? Never asked his son (or his brother apparently) to not profit from Joe's name.

That's fine, it was his choice. It is business as usual for most of them, hire family members for Congressional offices, usually the local office. There are sweetheart deals. Joe is not worse or especially corrupt.

But it is unseemly, and no surprise some voters find it so and others say, meh.

If it was not an issue, why did Hunter resign when it came to light and admit it looked bad? Because it looks bad.

If this were Biden vs Trump it would be absurd to say it mattered given the scale of Trump's corruption. But this is the primary. Joe is business as usual. We need something better.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Does it really matter whether H Biden was qualified to sit on Burisma's board? Does it matter if he got there because he was the VP's son? Unless Joe used his position as VP to GET that job for H, then the answer is 'no'. Unless it's shown that Joe or Hunter did something illegal, then the answer is 'no'. This is all nothing more than an attempt to distract from Trump withholding funds to Ukraine to further his personal, not the country's, interests. That is abuse of power.

Absolutely it is Trump's distraction. And I don't choose to play into it. I don't think it is relevant in Trump's impeachment other than it just shows how stupid Trump is.

But when it comes to the primary: It looks bad, maybe it shouldn't. But it was more than just the Burisma board.

 

[acbytesla]

SOP? Standard operating procedure meaning they hired him, Joe had no part in it before or after? Sure.

Do you know? My guess is no.

There's nothing illegal, Hunter could have been (probably was) acting without any favors from Dad.

But this went on for years, multiple companies, millions of dollars. Joe either didn't think it was a problem or thought it was legal so, so what? Never asked his son (or his brother apparently) to not profit from Joe's name.

That's fine, it was his choice. It is business as usual for most of them, hire family members for Congressional offices, usually the local office. There are sweetheart deals Joe is not worse or especially corrupt.

But it is unseemly, and no surprise some voters find it so and others say, meh.

If it was not an issue, why did Hunter resign when it came to light and admit it looked bad?

Tell this all to George W Bush, Jeb Bush, JFK, RFK, Ted Kennedy, Robert Kennedy Jr, etc. I could go on forever. Is it fair? Is it right? **** NO!

But it IS SOP.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, it doesn't.

Personally, my respect for Biden has increased after finding out that he didn't force his son out of the position to make Biden himself look better - Hunter doesn't have to refuse a lucrative gig just because his Dad is VP.

Really, makes Biden more honorable even though Hunter has been raking in the dough based on his father's name since he graduated from law school?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Have you ever seen the qualifications of 50 percent of Fortune 1000 corporations boards? Hunter Biden was more qualified than most. Does that make it right that an Oil company hired the VP's son as a director? No. I'd have no problem with laws that prevented this kind of thing, but offering up the Bidens as scapegoats seems a bit much.

Qualified how? What special talent did Hunter have besides his father's political position?

 

[PhantomWolf]

SOP? Standard operating procedure meaning they hired him, Joe had no part in it before or after? Sure.

There's nothing illegal, Hunter could have been (probably was) acting without any favors from Dad.

But this went on for years, multiple companies, millions of dollars. Joe either didn't think it was a problem or thought it was legal so, so what? Never asked his son (or his brother apparently) to not profit from Joe's name.

That's fine, it was his choice. It is business as usual for most of them, hire family members for Congressional offices, usually the local office. There are sweetheart deals. Joe is not worse or especially corrupt.

But it is unseemly, and no surprise some voters find it so and others say, meh.

If it was not an issue, why did Hunter resign when it came to light and admit it looked bad? Because it looks bad.

If this were Biden vs Trump it would be absurd to say it mattered given the scale of Trump's corruption. But this is the primary. Joe is business as usual. We need something better.

So children of Senators and other politicians should never be able to have a high powered job because it looks bad?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Perhaps. But I find it rather hypocritical that Trump, or anyone in his family (by blood or by marriage) should be criticizing Hunter for "profiting from the public office of his father".

Of course.

But the question in Trump's case is, did he abuse his power to further his own political ambitions. Duh, of course he did.

Hunter is a separate issue.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Qualified how? What special talent did Hunter have besides his father's political position?

He graduated Yale Law School.
He was an Executive Vice President of MBNA
He spent three years at the United States Department of Commerce developing policy.
He co-founded and ran three Four successful companies, Oldaker, Biden & Belair, Rosemont Seneca, and BHR Partners, and eta... Eudora Global
He was on the board of directors of Amtrak
And he's been an attorney for Boies, Schiller, Flexner LLP

 

[Stacyhs]

I already raised Kushner in a previous post. My comments were about Hunter Biden, not the Trump kids.

I agree that nepotism in this administration is a shame. That is irrelevant to my point.

If, as others have suggested, Biden was well qualified, then my premise is false.

I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Credence Clearwater comes to mind:

"It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no senator's son, son
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no"

And for Trump:

"It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no"

 

[thaiboxerken]

He graduated Yale Law School.
He was an Executive Vice President of MBNA
He spent three years at the United States Department of Commerce developing policy.
He co-founded and ran three Four successful companies, Oldaker, Biden & Belair, Rosemont Seneca, and BHR Partners, and eta... Eudora Global
He was on the board of directors of Amtrak
And he's been an attorney for Boies, Schiller, Flexner LLP

Sounds like he didn't have much to put on his resume.....

 

[Lurch]

I already raised Kushner in a previous post. My comments were about Hunter Biden, not the Trump kids.

I agree that nepotism in this administration is a shame. That is irrelevant to my point.

If, as others have suggested, Biden was well qualified, then my premise is false.

But if HB *was* superbly qualified, would that necessarily render moot any concerns of possible influence peddling? I doubt it.

The thing is, no matter which going concern he might find himself on the board of, the same pesky questions could be raised by those who want to do so. The only way to completely avoid that is to prohibit relatives from taking on any position--anywhere on Earth--that could remotely invite corruption of/by the related US official.

But is that fair? Can we not give the benefit of some trust in integrity, unless given reason to think otherwise? Are there not mechanisms or means of oversight in place to guard against corruption?

In this case I have seen no reason to consider HB's position as warranting the invocation of corruption. Nor do I see his father's role in ousting a corrupt Ukranian prosecutor as being tied to Hunter's situation.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

He graduated Yale Law School.
He was an Executive Vice President of MBNA

And from my link, this was not entirely on his merits either. Joe was an influential Congressman.

He spent three years at the United States Department of Commerce developing policy.
He co-founded and ran three Four successful companies, Oldaker, Biden & Belair, Rosemont Seneca, and BHR Partners, and eta... Eudora Global
He was on the board of directors of Amtrak
And he's been an attorney for Boies, Schiller, Flexner LLP

From post 1390 quoting the right leaning National Review:

Quote:
Late Summer 2006: Hunter Biden and his uncle, James Biden, purchase the hedge fund Paradigm Global Advisors. According to an unnamed executive quoted in Politico in August, James Biden declared to employees on his first day, “Don’t worry about investors. We’ve got people all around the world who want to invest in Joe Biden.” At this time, Joe Biden is months away from becoming chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and launching his second bid for president.

The unnamed executive who spoke to Politico charged that the purchase of the fund was designed to work around campaign-finance laws:

According to the executive, James Biden made it clear that he viewed the fund as a way to take money from rich foreigners who could not legally give money to his older brother or his campaign account. “We’ve got investors lined up in a line of 747s filled with cash ready to invest in this company,” the executive remembers James Biden saying.

Both James and Hunter Biden have denied to Politico that James had ever made these comments.

Up until that time, Hunter Biden had been employed as a consultant to the Delaware bank MBNA, with a $100,000-a-year retainer, according to the New York Times. The bank hired him fresh out of law school and in less than two years promoted him to senior vice president. Biden also separately worked as a lobbyist until 2008, founding the firm Oldaker Biden & Belair, where he represented mostly universities and hospitals but also drug companies such as Achaogen Inc. and Pulmatrix Inc., and the music-sharing company Napster and online gambling sites.

Hunter says he has never lobbied his father on any client matter. But the potential for the appearance of a conflict of interest allegedly troubled the senator at one point.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sounds like he didn't have much to put on his resume.....

Oh yes, he did, but there are questions.

Obviously Hunter was no dummy, and he was highly educated and his experience grew fast. And he was a fortunate, wealthy Senator's son.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

But if HB *was* superbly qualified, would that necessarily render moot any concerns of possible influence peddling? I doubt it.

The thing is, no matter which going concern he might find himself on the board of, the same pesky questions could be raised by those who want to do so. The only way to completely avoid that is to prohibit relatives from taking on any position--anywhere on Earth--that could remotely invite corruption of/by the related US official.

But is that fair? Can we not give the benefit of some trust in integrity, unless given reason to think otherwise? Are there not mechanisms or means of oversight in place to guard against corruption?

In this case I have seen no reason to consider HB's position as warranting the invocation of corruption. Nor do I see his father's role in ousting a corrupt Ukranian prosecutor as being tied to Hunter's situation.

I think the questions arise in that some of Hunter's lucrative positions made little sense except for Joe's positions.

Tell us, why a company in Ukraine? Is it not just a little suspicious given that is not the only coincidental employment of Hunter?

But I keep coming back to what matters: How stupid and obsessed was Trump to think he needed to coerce Zelenski instead of just putting out there what was already in the public record?


I suppose one reason, rather than pure stupidity, is Trump wanted J Biden to look directly involved in corruption rather than simply having a 'fortunate' son. Otherwise it'd be pretty hard to just talk about getting family members benefits.