The Infinite! In Search of The Ultimate Truth.

[Matthew Ellard]

What is the mathematical propability (probability) for every infinitely little detail to occur precisely as needed, for the Universe to be brought to existence on its own?

You have no common sense. We evolved in this universe to match the environment of this universe.

If, say, gravity were 100 times stronger, another sort of life would have evolved. .

You simply don't understand this as you don't believe in evolution.

 

[Craig4]

So please tell me, where exactly am I "far out there?" Now without me giving considerably more weight to answering Matthew Ellard's comments, which I have answered repeatedly and ten fold, and apparently he has nothing new to say, maybe now we can get things more in perspective.

Well that's just it isn't it. You really haven't answered his questions or corrections. As to all your energy answering, you're the only one expended that energy. The problems with your reasoning and beliefs are trivially easy to spot.

Your real problem is that you want to have some deep understanding of the universe and the origins there of but you've cut ahead without doing the work to develop said understanding. You tortured a bit of logic so yours can be the only right answer and you know the deep secrets of the origins of all things. It doesn't work like that. You didn't put any effort here. You didn't even know that Einstein didn't discover the speed of light.

If you want to declare victory feel free. It won't cost anyone here except you anything. You won't expand your knowledge of a topic you are both interested in and defeated by. Your declaration of victory won't change how light moves or particles behave when they approach the speed of light. Nor will your "victory" impact the work being done in this field.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Can you comprehend how "hilarious" this belief sounds to billions of people on the planet some of whom are
Scientists?

You poor poor boy. Scientists are educated and very aware of the debunked religious Anthropic principle. If the universe were different, then humans would not have evolved. However, we did evolve and thus, this is the universe we know.

Didn't your common sense tell you that?

 

[Craig4]

Matthew,

What is the mathematical propability for every infinitely little detail to occur precisely as needed, for the Universe to be brought to existence on its own?


Can you comprehend how "hilarious" this belief sounds to billions of people on the planet some of whom are Scientists?

Not every doctor, or physicist, mathematician or NASA engineer is an atheist you know.

Tell me, what can I make with this idea of yours?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

If you want to declare victory feel free.

His God is infinities "hypothesis" has now been edited over 110 times, generally matching the number of times he has declared victory.....before editing his original claim again to remove another error.

"Last edited by TazAnastazio on Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:50 am, edited 111 times in total."
https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=28434&sid=08847042aa418e96ccd2898de2d5bab4

 

[tazanastazio]

Firstly, you deny evolution is real as you are a religious nutter.. However scientific evolution understands bees and flowers both evolved at the same time. Random mutation in both the common bee and plant species, produced a relationship where bees benefited more from pollen nutrition if they distributed it between flowers. As these two mutations were able to breed more and have more offspring the gene frequency increased and both species evolved.

"Bees and flowers have evolved together for millions of years. It is a mutual relationship where the bee is provided with food (nectar or pollen) and the stationary plant gets to disperse its pollen (sperm cells) to other plants of the same species. ... This is an example of a co-evolutionary relationship"
https://www.otago.ac.nz/genetics/otago038359.pdf

In contrast, you think "God" made bees go to flowers.

The notion that evolution occured entirely on it's own, and that it was entirely self coordinated is silly! One can say nature, or God or the Infinite, but to say it just happen on it's own and kept on going; one chance, one successful attempt out of the infinite failures; well one does not actually need even elementary mathematical skills to realize the fallacy of such notion!



Bees and plants are living beings, nevertheless they are not able strictly on their own to work towards achieving a common goal, regardless the passing of the millinia without an outside interference. They don't have the intellectual capacity to evolve and better their circumstances by causing parallel evolution in agreement towards a common benefit. Humans did evolve, from the caves to spaceships on their own, but not before some circumstance causing the intellectual development (and the appropriate function, by the generation of hands); and something caused that intellectual evolution, on humans ONLY. Planets and stars evolving on their own in a mutually aggreable movement in space, stand an infinitely less chance, no matter the infinite amount of quadrillions of years passing and the infinite number of formations and destructions and actions and reactions of matter and energy, without intelligence to arrange the process and set things going.

 

[Craig4]

Bees and plants are living beings, nevertheless they are not able strictly on their own to work towards achieving a common goal, regardless the passing of the millinia without an outside interference. They don't have the intellectual capacity to evolve and better their circumstances by causing parallel evolution in agreement towards a common benefit. Humans did evolve, from the caves to spaceships on their own, but not before some circumstance causing the intellectual development (and the appropriate function, by the generation of hands). Planets and stars evolving on their own in a mutually aggreable movement in space, stand an infinitely less chance, no matter the infinite amount of quadrillions of years passing and the infinite number of formations and destructions and actions and reactions of matter and energy, without intelligence to arrange the process and set things going.

You haven't read "Origin of Species".

 

[abaddon]

Matthew,

What is the mathematical propability for every infinitely little detail to occur precisely as needed, for the Universe to be brought to existence on its own?


Can you comprehend how "hilarious" this belief sounds to billions of people on the planet some of whom are Scientists?

Not every doctor, or physicist, mathematician or NASA engineer is an atheist you know.

The mathematical propability for every infinitely little detail to occur precisely as needed, for the Universe to be brought to existence on its own is one. Do you know why?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

The notion that evolution occured entirely on it's own, and that it was entirely self coordinated is silly!

Like basic science, you don't have a clue what evolution is as you are religious

Evolution is not coordinated.

Step 1 / Random Mutation
DNA sequences have millions of molecules. Every now and then there is a random DNA change or "mutation" that forms a fertilised egg. This mutation may kill the offspring, or be neutral in its effect or may change some physical attribute of the offspring

Step 2 / The Environment sorts out the beneficial mutationss
The mutation may be advantageous. For example "super bugs" had a random DNA change which prevents existing penicillin from killing them. As these species have an advantage, they have more offspring themselves and all carry the mutated genes. Thus "super bugs" replace older extinct bacteria.

This is called evolution. It is really simple to understand but you are struggling to grasp basic concepts.

Did you know some whales are still born with legs? Why would your "God" do that? Why would your "God" make super bugs to kill more humans?

Try reading this book. It has cartoons that you might understand

 

[abaddon]

You haven't read "Origin of Species".

Ironically, his cartoon version of evolution of any kind is finite. What he is peddling is merely a repackaging of the fundagelical notion of a micro/macro evolution. He appears to have cribbed that from creationists and repurposed it to his own foolish idea.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Bees and plants are living beings, They don't have the intellectual capacity to evolve and better their circumstances by causing parallel evolution in agreement towards a common benefit.

I have never read anything so stupid before in my entire life.

Humans did evolve, from the caves to spaceships on their own,

We evolved from rat like mammals, 65,000,000 years ago. I studied human evolution at university

something caused that intellectual evolution

Random mutation followed by advantageous physiology for the savanna environment 2.5 million years ago in Africa.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

You haven't read "Origin of Species".

Tazanastazio should be given the old ineffective penicillin, from before super bugs evolved. If he doesn't believe in evolution, then he has nothing to worry about..........and his genes will be removed from the human gene pool.

Superbug, super-fast evolution / Understanding Evolution
https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/080401_mrsa

 

[Matthew Ellard]

something caused that intellectual evolution, on humans ONLY. .

The event that caused hominid (All early humans) intellect to evolve was the dying out of African rain forests and the introduction of savanna approximately three million years ago.

Australopithecus first evolved bipedalism, (walking on two legs) but with monkey sized brains....till they became extinct. Then came the first use of language (evolution of the larynx) and stone tool use in Homo habilis.....till they came extinct. Then came Homo erectus with intellect...until they became extinct. Then came Homo sapien approximately 190,000 year ago.

So which human did your "God" give intellect to and then make extinct?

Australopithecus afrensis?
Australopithecus robustus?
Homo habilis?
Homo erectus?
Homo floresiensis?
Homo neanderthalensis?
Homo heidelbergensis?
Homo rudolfensis.

 

[tazanastazio]

I have never read anything so stupid before in my entire life.

Ha, ha, ha! Do you ever read some of the stuff you write? Such as the singularity emerged in a non-dimension and then a Big Bang caused the expansion of the Universe; which universe is finite yet still expanding within a non-dimension, that is the first dumbest thing I've ever read anywhere in my entire life, and the second is that evolution started and progressed entirely on it's own.

By the way, the aforementioned statement, the intellectuality of which you questioned, was based on your assertion and was made simply to display it as purely nonsensical, how did you miss the drift?

We evolved from rat like mammals, 65,000,000 years ago. I studied human evolution at university

Yes, I've learned that in elementary school. What caused it, and what set the process and interfered or intervened in the process? If you say nothing, prove it.

Random mutation followed by advantageous physiology for the savanna environment 2.5 million years ago in Africa.

Random mutation would have not evolved the eye, at best we would be at the premodial bacteria level still.

 

[tazanastazio]

Ironically, his cartoon version of evolution of any kind is finite. What he is peddling is merely a repackaging of the fundagelical notion of a micro/macro evolution. He appears to have cribbed that from creationists and repurposed it to his own foolish idea.

You are totally wrong, I simply examine all points of view objectively as a true skeptic (greek term by the way comes from the root of the word "Σκέψη - Thought."). Rest assure I would not believe anything that didn't make sense to me, that I didn't deduced through unbiased, unnaffected, unimposed, unindoctrinated, reason and simple common sense as I have mentioned already.

What is up with your Avatar anyway? I get the symbolism, but do you consider the effect on people who consider Jesus as sacred to them? Would you like anyone making fun of say a beloved person of yours, or I don't know someone whom you revere? Say, Dawkins, Hawking, Feynman,Tesla, the Queen, Ghandi, Muhammad, Socrates or Budha! Why so much animosity for a peaceful, old world, Jewish reformer, anyway? Who if nothing else, brought an end to the cruelty of the Roman empire brought about by lunatics Tyrants, who had nothing better to do but torture and slaughter people; the Jewish people throughout the centuries. In Egypt it was the Pharaohs - Moses the one who had done away with them; during the Roman Empire it was Christ who started the demise of the cruelty of the hysteric, barbarians some of the Roman Emperors where. Without faith in Christ, not much would have been achieved to that cause, till some other avenue was found throughout the centuries. If anything Christ should be revered by Atheists who advocate for, and uphold the positive principles of human nature, for that alone; and to the least not being made subject of mochery through, if not sacreligious to the least offensive or disrespectful, and downroght inconsiderate for people's feelings, avatars!

Why not a pope from the inquisition times, or an archibishop, the clergy or a pastor, if you want to make a point on hypocrisy when it comes to the religious establishment? What's your beef with Jesus? I mean you present Jesus as if he was a Vampire in a nightmare you had during delirium causing fever.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

(disbelief)... the singularity emerged in a non-dimension and then a Big Bang caused the expansion of the Universe; which universe is finite yet still expanding within a non-dimension

Yep. That's exactly what is happening. Would you like to read the supporting evidence again....that you keep forgetting on purpose?

How do you explain the Cosmic Microwave background radiation from the big bang is in all directions? How do you explain that any telescope pointing in any direction sees the early universe? How do you explain red-shift and the expanding universe from the Big bang.

(You linked us to six articles on quantum fluctuation ....did you forget?

Let us laugh at you some more , with your "explanations"

"According to Einstein's theory of General Relativity, space itself can be curved by mass. As a result, the density of the universe — how much mass it has spread over its volume — determines its shape, as well as its future.

Scientists have calculated the "critical density" of the universe. The critical density is proportional to the square of the Hubble constant, which is used in measuring the expansion rate of the universe. Comparing the critical density to the actual density can help scientists to understand the cosmos"
https://www.space.com/24309-shape-of-the-universe.html

Random mutation would have not evolved the eye,

You have to be kidding. Single cell bacteria follow light waves as they evolved receptors 3.5 billion years ago. Multi cell animals focus light waves onto receptors. These are called eyes. There are actually seven different types of evolved eyes using different evolved methods. You simply didn't know this as you don't know anything about science.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

We evolved from rat like mammals, 65,000,000 years ago. I studied human evolution at university

Yes, I've learned that in elementary school. What caused it, and what set the process and interfered or intervened in the process? If you say nothing, prove it.

Step 1 / Random DNA mutation introduces new genes
Step 2 / The Environment sorts out mutations which are advantageous

This is called "evolution". You must have fallen asleep in elementary school when the teacher said that.

Are you now going to deny DNA has mutations...so we can laugh at you some more?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I simply examine all points of view objectively as a true skeptic . Rest assure I would not believe anything that didn't make sense to me, that I didn't deduced through unbiased, unnaffected, unimposed, undoctrinated, reason and simple common sense as I have mentioned already.

You forgot that skeptics use falsifiable hypotheses and experimentation.

That's why you can't find one experiment to back up your religious belief system crap and can't write a coherent hypothesis.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Why so much animosity for (Jesus)a peaceful, old world, Jewish reformer, anyway? Who if nothing else, brought an end to the cruelty of the Roman empire brought about by lunatics Tyrants,

The Roman emperors (Tyrants) made Christianity the state religion under Constantine. You really don't know anything about anything.

 

[tazanastazio]

B

The Roman emperors (Tyrants) made Christianity the state religion under Constantine. You really don't know anything about anything.

Whereas you think you know everything. Constantine the Great (Κωνσταντίνος ο Μέγας) was the last Roman Emperor (303 AD) and the creator of the Byzantine Empire (330 AD) - and as such part of the Greek-Christian history, is taught in the Greek schools; along with the earlier Roman emperors, if it so happened that the latter had their soldiers chasing after Christians (Paul/aka Saul was one such a soldier turned Christian martyr - for those who may not be aware of the fact), terrorized or slaughtered them, or burned them, crucified them, or fed them to the Lions. I was referring to Gaius (Caligula 37 AD), Nero (54 AD) and Diocletian who tried to erradicate the Christians (284 AD). Constantines mother by the way Elleni (Ελλένη) was Greek (and a Christian) and therefore Constantine was half Roman and half Greek.

So whenever you meet a Greek, whose name is Kostas - Κώστας, it is the short for the name of the emperor from whom the name derives. But you knew that didn't you? Oh well, there is always Google.

As for all the other stuff about evolution you referred to, and were so kind to spend your time to copy and paste, pictures and all, I don't doubt it. Still though, it could have taken place by itself. The propability of yhe things you mention, let alone of plannet Earth to find itself just at the right distance from the Sun, or the Universe to function so well on its own, simply doesn't cut it.Prove it does, and then I'll admit I was wrong, and you know everything, short of what put the durn singularity there of course, in the middle of a one-dimensional nothingness.



Honest, dumbest thing, never was said than that the Universe popped out of nothing and nowhere ("non-dimentional" he said, the laughing stock of written history) and then the Universe after it got things together, mother Earth decided to kick off the Evolution and got the ball rolling! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha! What a load of Bullflakes (the word "crap" would fit here like a glove too, but I decided to use my own). Matey I have an island nearby Crete to rent cheap for a thousand bucks a month, with room and board, let me send you one of my bank accounts (the one I use for such transactions) ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Every time I am down on spirits, when I get stuck in traffic on the way to work, I'll think of these two wise notions of yours, among a few others, and it will make my day! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha cheers mate! That is the laugh of the century, if not since the invention of the written word.

How a so educated person, as you proclaim yourself to be, can be at the same time so gullible, and believe whatever is furnished to him! Think man, don't just learn to re-iterate like a parrot! Think! Use your God given brain, and don't believe whatever they serve you, because they tell you it is accompanied by a fancy name! I am not even saying to you, that God, some super being/Intelligence created life on Earth (not impossible right, smaller and bigger beings/intelligence on Earth; even bigger in a galaxy far, far away).I'm saying, if as you say, Evolution happened on it's own, or the Universe popped up on it's own; then even in that case, a certain Force within Nature caused the Evolution to happen; and within the "non-dimentional nothingness, caused the Universe to pop up within that "non-denominational" nothingness, and to get itself in order! What are you saying happened?