House Impeachment Inquiry

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Belz... said:
I think I made the reasons clear: a pattern of defending the team no matter what, and attacking anyone outside of it.
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That's not the pattern here, though. Nor has it ever been the pattern, with me.

My disillusionment with Mattis has nothing to do with his split with Trump, and everything to do with his association with Holmes. It is, in fact, evidence against the pattern you claim exists.
 
tyr_13 said:
Biden's actions were not corrupt. There is nothing to hold him accountable for. This is a false equivalency, and I'm sure you believe it but it is an increadibly dumb false equivalency.


You desperately want the dems to be just as bad but they are not. Golden Mean is a fallacy.
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You and everyone else can keep harping the false equivalency... it's not. What I did was respond to a member who used the typical "every trumper is 'x' ' insult which itself was nothing more than an ad hominem. It's a partisan, off topic opinion designed to belittle anyone as being blindly supportive of a specific candidate so there doesnt have to be a debate over substantive policy judgements or issues

Before you or anyone else tries to discredit my point yet again by claiming false equivalency... its again... not. There is a political divide and a huge amount of animosity, and its documented... like it or not it. I wasnt addressing who should be blamed more or for what reasons. That is not the topic.
 
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Belz... said:
Is it part of a pattern or an isolated ****-up? 'Cause everybody ***** up at some point, usually with some regularity. It's just weird that you turned on Mattis just right now.



Of course. He was on the team.
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A lot of people who should have known better were taken in by Elizabeth Holmes.
And the speed with the which the Worshippers of Dear Leader have turned on Mattis reminds me of the mobs in "1984" switching from hating Eurasia to hating Eastasia on a moment's notice.
I used to think Orwell was stretching things a bit with that,but not anymore. Not since I saw the Trump followers at work.
 
theprestige said:
That's not the pattern here, though. Nor has it ever been the pattern, with me.

My disillusionment with Mattis has nothing to do with his split with Trump, and everything to do with his association with Holmes. It is, in fact, evidence against the pattern you claim exists.
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Sorry, I just don't believe you. That you were not disillusioned about Mattis until he broke with Dear Leader is just too much of a coincidence for me to buy.
 
theprestige said:
I can respect someone for choosing not to get involved with Donald Trump. I can't respect someone for choosing to get involved with Elizabeth Holmes.
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I don't know. When he signed up with Theranos it was not clear that Holmes was a con artist. Nobody was pointing out her multiple bankruptcies and failed businesses or how she was well know for stiffing contractors and lying about things trivial and great. She had not yet been exposed. For the former he had no such excuses.

ETA: But I have not read the book you are reading. Maybe the signs were as clear as the large public displays provided by Trump.
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
You and everyone else can keep harping the false equivalency... it's not. What I did was respond to a member who used the typical "every trumper is 'x' ' insult which itself was nothing more than an ad hominem. It's a partisan, off topic opinion designed to belittle anyone as being blindly supportive of a specific candidate so there doesnt have to be a debate over substantive policy judgements or issues

Before you or anyone else tries to discredit my point yet again by claiming false equivalency... its again... not. There is a political divide and a huge amount of animosity, and its documented... like it or not it. I wasnt addressing who should be blamed more or for what reasons. That is not the topic.
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I think you missed the point about false equivalency. It is not about animosity, it is about comparing Biden's completely legal actions that actually could have harmed his son's interest to Trump's brazenly selfish actions that served only to help himself and his interests.
 
Dr. Keith said:
I don't know. When he signed up with Theranos it was not clear that Holmes was a con artist. Nobody was pointing out her multiple bankruptcies and failed businesses or how she was well know for stiffing contractors and lying about things trivial and great. She had not yet been exposed. For the former he had no such excuses.

ETA: But I have not read the book you are reading. Maybe the signs were as clear as the large public displays provided by Trump.
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IMHO Holmes was a lot smarter con person then Donnie was.
And people are always suckers for a pretty face. The media loved the idea tha the next Bill Gates level high tech genius was a cute blonde.
 
dudalb said:
Sorry, I just don't believe you. That you were not disillusioned about Mattis until he broke with Dear Leader is just too much of a coincidence for me to buy.
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Coincidences do occur. I'd take him at his word on this.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
It's only 'incorrect' because partisanship causes people to ignore things they dont like to hear. I'm not arguing for equal responsibility. But it's obvious from news coverage that issues Trump gets legitimately pinned on are largely ignored when it's not him or the Republicans doing it.

Notice how Bidens involvement in getting a ukranian prosecutor fired when his son had a stake in that company gets very little attention and isnt held accountable...

Much like this false dichotomy that anyone who voted for him can be nothing other than mysoginist racists and nazis. If you're wondering why I have a hard time taking politics seriously anymore theres your answer. But keep arguing that it's all one sided...


They've voted on it three times during his term already. This vote to proceed on it will make 4. They can ultimately prove me wrong and do the impeachment but we have an election taking place in one year where voters could wind up removing him that way. I dont think people like Pelosi are blind to that...
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tyr_13 said:
Biden's actions were not corrupt. There is nothing to hold him accountable for. This is a false equivalency, and I'm sure you believe it but it is an increadibly dumb false equivalency.

Biden's actions put the company at MORE risk. His son wasn't even at risk because he was a board member and not a time ttaveler.

You desperately want the dems to be just as bad but they are not. Golden Mean is a fallacy.
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Grizzly Bear said:
You and everyone else can keep harping the false equivalency... it's not. What I did was respond to a member who used the typical "every trumper is 'x' ' insult which itself was nothing more than an ad hominem. It's a partisan, off topic opinion designed to belittle anyone as being blindly supportive of a specific candidate so there doesnt have to be a debate over substantive policy judgements or issues

Before you or anyone else tries to discredit my point yet again by claiming false equivalency... its again... not. There is a political divide and a huge amount of animosity, and its documented... like it or not it. I wasnt addressing who should be blamed more or for what reasons. That is not the topic.
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No, this is a false equivalency. The equivalency you construct isn't one of magnitude, but one of kind.

You argue that they are both corrupt people and actions, but they aren't. Joe Biden's action was not corrupt, and thus not giving it the same kind (not magnitude) of attention or ANY accountability, unless you somehow meant accolades for doing such and honorable thing even though it could hurt his son's income, would not be justified, let alone be evidence of a double standard.

The Dems right now are orders of magnitude less corrupt than the Republicans. The Dems do have meaningful criticisms of each other, and do in fact hold each other accountable while the Republicans hardly do and definitely don't with regards to Trump. Yes, you say you're not saying who should be blamed more, but your argument doesn't match that assertion. If you think the Dems should be held more accountable for the divide, make that argument. If you think the Dems aren't holding each other accountable enough, don't use an example that weighs HEAVILY against your point.

There is no law of nature, no predestine, and no reason to presuppose that both groups would be of similar levels. They are not random samples; they are self-selecting groups.

You seem to forget the subject of the thread. How much impeachment do you thing Joe Biden should be getting right now?
 
Grizzly Bear said:
I mean, when you look at the clown show going on in Congress generally I find it hard to disagree with him about the putrid state of any politics these days. Just my general commentary...

I for one think the impeachment gig is a political show for the election season. Given that they seem hesitant to take the vote on moving it forward
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The House vote before gathering all the evidence is nothing more than a made up talking point and you've fallen for it.

There is no rule, no procedure that calls for said House vote before proceeding. Trump and his team of gaslighters made it up and then pronounced it was some deficit the Democrats needed to fill. And you've fallen for it.
 
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Dr. Keith said:
Nobody was pointing out her multiple bankruptcies and failed businesses or how she was well know for stiffing contractors and lying about things trivial and great. She had not yet been exposed. For the former he had no such excuses.

ETA: But I have not read the book you are reading. Maybe the signs were as clear as the large public displays provided by Trump.
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Yes, this is the thing that gets me. Everything I read about Elizabeth Holmes draws a comparison in my mind to Trump. So why is Holmes reprehensible, but Trump absolutely A-OK?

I mean, okay, he didn't provide sick people with fraudulent blood test results, but he did funnel money donated to a children's cancer charity into his own business. I don't see a great deal of difference.
 
dudalb said:
A lot of people who should have known better were taken in by Elizabeth Holmes.
And the speed with the which the Worshippers of Dear Leader have turned on Mattis reminds me of the mobs in "1984" switching from hating Eurasia to hating Eastasia on a moment's notice.
I used to think Orwell was stretching things a bit with that,but not anymore. Not since I saw the Trump followers at work.
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Bing ******* o

Also they don’t need literal memory holes. I thought Orwell was over the top with that, but trump-suckers just look at evidence and deny that it exists while it is in front of them.

Double-think is now the only reality for about one third of the US.
 
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dudalb said:
A lot of people who should have known better were taken in by Elizabeth Holmes.
And the speed with the which the Worshippers of Dear Leader have turned on Mattis reminds me of the mobs in "1984" switching from hating Eurasia to hating Eastasia on a moment's notice.
I used to think Orwell was stretching things a bit with that,but not anymore. Not since I saw the Trump followers at work.
Click to expand...

autumn1971 said:
Bing ******* o

Also they don’t need literal memory holes. I thought Orwell was over the top with that, but trump-suckers just look at evidence and deny that it exists while it is in front of them.

Double-think is now the only reality for about one third of the US.
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I really wish Christopher Hitchens was still alive to comment on all this. Orwell was his favorite writer. He wrote a great book called "Why Orwell matters".
 
A Republican announced they were on board for the impeachment inquiry... and then that they were retiring.

Rep. Francis Rooney (R-Fla.), one of the only House Republicans openly willing to consider a vote to impeach President Donald Trump, announced on Saturday that he plans to retire.
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Linky.
 
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