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God's Omniscience

Wonderful! Now you finally understand the argument against your notion that god is everywhere. You have, in your world-view, no "no god" condition to compare to...

...or does this mean you have finally changed one of your views? Will you be updating your online book to correspond to your new knowledge?
Am merely suggesting that God provides for the appearance of "no-thing," in order that we might learn of "some-thing." Even in a void, the principle of the void must also exist, as do the principles which give rise to everything else. Either that, or you will have to explain to me how something can come from nothing. ;)
 
That is perfectly true. In order to make mistakes or commit sins you first have to exist.

Not necessarily. Anyone can create a fictional character that makes mistakes or commits sins.
 
Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

oh i see, times like these i wish i were a biblical scholar...my niv says "when you eat of it you will surely die." Following accordingly also in chapter 3...either way, another defense would be to say that the "death" of Adam and Eve that day was spiritual.
 
oh i see, times like these i wish i were a biblical scholar...my niv says "when you eat of it you will surely die." Following accordingly also in chapter 3...either way, another defense would be to say that the "death" of Adam and Eve that day was spiritual.

That's a common apologetic response. I would like someone to tell me exactly what it says in Hebrew. The point is, the [somewhat] more reliable KJV is very clear that they should die the same DAY.
 
That's a common apologetic response. I would like someone to tell me exactly what it says in Hebrew. The point is, the [somewhat] more reliable KJV is very clear that they should die the same DAY.
The Bible also tells us that the world was created (literally) in six days. Can you be quite certain that something other than this wasn't meant? Oh, and since the story outlines that Adam and Eve didn't die immediately afterwards (albeit they lost their spiritual perspective), do you think it's possible it could have meant something else?
 
The Bible also tells us that the world was created (literally) in six days. Can you be quite certain that something other than this wasn't meant?

If the Bible doesn't mean what it says, then it's useless.

Oh, and since the story outlines that Adam and Eve didn't die immediately afterwards (albeit they lost their spiritual perspective)


Lost their spiritual perspective ? First off, what in the flying dutchman's name does this mean ?

Second, I would think that gaining the knowledge of good and evil actually GAVE them perspective.
 
Am merely suggesting that God provides for the appearance of "no-thing," in order that we might learn of "some-thing."
So, then, the answer is "no"; you do not understand that the argument you just gave invalidates your own world view. Mmmmmkay.
Even in a void, the principle of the void must also exist, as do the principles which give rise to everything else.
So, a void can only be a void if it is not, in fact, a void, but a container of some sort.
Either that, or you will have to explain to me how something can come from nothing. ;)
As soon as you explain how the "principles of the void" came from nothing.
 
If the Bible doesn't mean what it says, then it's useless.
Or, perhaps "we" just don't understand its terminology too well?

Lost their spiritual perspective ? First off, what in the flying dutchman's name does this mean ?
An altered state. Perhaps in the way a piece of fruit exists while basking in the light of the sun, before dropping below and geting consumed by all the microbes in the soil? Which, would be comparable to "a death" of sorts.

Second, I would think that gaining the knowledge of good and evil actually GAVE them perspective.
Well, at the very least, I think Adam and Eve were probably very naive and, that this would account for why they fell. They were only the fruit of the tree, and not the tree itself.
 
I'm saying that such a thing is not possible, are you?
But you are the one who said that a void must contain the principles of the void! Are you retracting that now? Or where did they come from? If it is a void, did they come from nothing? If they came from something, how can it be a void? Are you simply re-defining things again, or had you simply spoken before you really thought about what you were saying?

Come on, Iacchus, get your stories to match up with each other, at least!
 
Right. ;)

Which is to say, it can only be a void relative to something.
Indeed, look at the symbol of the Yin and Yang, which contains something, in contrast with nothing, contained within a singularity. So, if you take away this something versus nothing "thingee," the singularity (of which the something and nothing are comprised) still remains.
 
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Right. ;)

Which is to say, it can only be a void relative to something.
Which is to say, your definition of "void" is separate and distinct from a definition of "nothing", which makes your whole line of argument moot.

Your "yin-yang" example shows, once again, that your concept of "nothing" is flawed, which might explain your failure to understand the more complex topics.
 
Which is to say, your definition of "void" is separate and distinct from a definition of "nothing", which makes your whole line of argument moot.
Only in the sense that there was never a time when there was ever nothing of its own accord.

Your "yin-yang" example shows, once again, that your concept of "nothing" is flawed, which might explain your failure to understand the more complex topics.
It suggests that the overall principle of reality exists as "a whole."
 
Only in the sense that there was never a time when there was ever nothing of its own accord.
Are you finally agreeing that time-space is, in this universe, linked, and that there was no "before the big bang"? I certainly hope so.
It suggests that the overall principle of reality exists as "a whole."
It may suggest that, but your interpretation of it as "something, in contrast with nothing" is quite flawed. Rather, it shows a filled space and a blank space (not even blank for those versions with the dot in the middle). And there is a universe of difference between "empty space" and "nothing".
 
Or, perhaps "we" just don't understand its terminology too well?

That's what I said. If God made the bible so that we don't understand it, then it's useless.

Well, at the very least, I think Adam and Eve were probably very naive and, that this would account for why they fell. They were only the fruit of the tree, and not the tree itself.

What are you talking about ? They gained more than they lost. Had they NOT listened to the snake, they still would be primitive savages obeying God's every whim.
 
What are you talking about ? They gained more than they lost. Had they NOT listened to the snake, they still would be primitive savages obeying God's every whim.
And where was God all this time that they were listening to the snake?
 
Are you finally agreeing that time-space is, in this universe, linked, and that there was no "before the big bang"? I certainly hope so.
And what if some "other" Universe existed besides this one? Would time continue to tick in that one, regardless of whether this Universe existed?


It may suggest that, but your interpretation of it as "something, in contrast with nothing" is quite flawed. Rather, it shows a filled space and a blank space (not even blank for those versions with the dot in the middle). And there is a universe of difference between "empty space" and "nothing".
Yet if you happened to be in the midst of that "nothingness" (depending on how vast and deep it is) how would you know otherwise that "something else" didn't exist?
 
Yes, and the whole thing no doubt stems from the Universal seed which, God had planted. Meaning, the criteria for the known Universe or, blueprint, had already been determined beforehand.

That's just sad right there. Takes himself too seriously to even see my lame puns!
 
And what if some "other" Universe existed besides this one? Would time continue to tick in that one, regardless of whether this Universe existed?
Presumably. But we could never know. And it would have no bearing whatsoever on time-space within this universe.
Yet if you happened to be in the midst of that "nothingness" (depending on how vast and deep it is) how would you know otherwise that "something else" didn't exist?
If you are in the midst of it, it is not "nothing". Indeed, if it can be said to have a "midst", it is not "nothing". If it can be described as "vast and deep", it is not "nothing." You continue to think of "nothing" as having dimensions, as occupying space. Sorry, empty space is something.

As long as you have the wrong conception of "nothing", Iacchus, your examples will continue to be flawed, and your understanding as well.
 

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