Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[McHrozni]

That would be hilarious So hilarious I find it hard to believe he'd do it.

It might also see him in a long process appealing to the EU for a judgement, while his opponents nip over the road to the UK's supreme court.

How does he explain an earlier prolongation of Brexit?

I mean sure, I see what BJ is trying to do here, but not even he could pretend the Brexit deadline can't be extended.

McHrozni

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Anything they try will be desperate nonsense, but so long as he can draw it out so that the deadline for leaving is passed, then he can get his No Deal. It doesn't really matter after that.

 

[Garrison]

Its utterly ridiculous that we have a PM who is constantly trying to subvert, parliament, the courts, and the democratic process in general. I don't believe for one moment Johnson is doing this in the name of some higher principle, he's just an entitled idiot who can't stand being told no.

 

[BobTheCoward]

So stop JAQing off, and actually look into these things.

Asking you guys questions is how I'm looking into things. I'm getting great answers. You are a good resource.

 

[The Don]

Its utterly ridiculous that we have a PM who is constantly trying to subvert, parliament, the courts, and the democratic process in general. I don't believe for one moment Johnson is doing this in the name of some higher principle, he's just an entitled idiot who can't stand being told no.

To be fair, he and his backers also stand to make a fortune as well......

 

[psionl0]

No, the SC ruling is now part of case law and it clarifies an already existing common law.

There was no existing law - common or otherwise.

The SC didn't refer to any existing laws. They just said that the matter was "justiciable" meaning that they had authority to adjudicate on the matter.

 

[jimbob]

How does he explain an earlier prolongation of Brexit?

I mean sure, I see what BJ is trying to do here, but not even he could pretend the Brexit deadline can't be extended.

McHrozni

Well the EU has said they're willing to extend for negotiations in good faith.


Would you think that it's possible for Honest Johnson to negotiate anything in good faith ?

 

[Craig B]

He just hates Europe. He likes the rest of the world. That is because Europe was never part of the British Empire, but the rest of the world was.

Europe? What about Malta, Cyprus, Heligoland and plucky little Gibraltar still holding out so courageously against the Spaniards?

Does he like us up here in Scotland? We're still in (what's left of) the British Empire after all.

 

[Parsman]

In the UK common law is law that was introduced centuries ago, before laws were being written as statutes. What you call "judge made law" is called case law and sets precedents regarding how existing laws are enforced. Parliament makes statutory laws.

You do realise there are 3 different systems of law in the UK don't you? English, Northern Irish and Scottish law. Scottish law is different from English law in its derivation and application. Indeed that was one of the reasons the Supreme Court became involved as the Scottish Court of Session ruled the prorogation of Parliament illegal. So there is no such thing as "UK common law".

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Its utterly ridiculous that we have a PM who is constantly trying to subvert, parliament, the courts, and the democratic process in general. I don't believe for one moment Johnson is doing this in the name of some higher principle, he's just an entitled idiot who can't stand being told no.

His own sister said that friends of his have billions invested in shorting the pound and who are therefore relying on No Deal. I think that's his primary motivator.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

That would be hilarious So hilarious I find it hard to believe he'd do it.

It might also see him in a long process appealing to the EU for a judgement, while his opponents nip over the road to the UK's supreme court.

I dont think that works. If he asks for an extension and the EU approves it then that becomes EU law and applies to the UK automatically. The Benn bill is in compliance with the Att 50 process.

Any other wheezes would be knocked down in court I think. Not even Supreme Court. Any court could act to render any action void pending appeal

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

There was no existing law - common or otherwise.

The SC didn't refer to any existing laws. They just said that the matter was "justiciable" meaning that they had authority to adjudicate on the matter.

11 Supreme Court judges disagree with you. What are your legal credentials?

Simply repeating the same misapprehensions isnt a convincing argument

 

[Arcade22]

What has any of that got to do with the post you quoted? Parliament didn't set any rules for prorogation.

Exactly, which means it's a part of common law. Common law is how rules and laws are established based on tradition and precedent instead of formally enacted legislation.

A great example of this is that the crime of murder is (at least in England and Wales) not formally defined by legislation. In spite of this there is nothing preventing people from being convicted of murder there, because the definition is determined by common law rather than statuary law.

 

[Lothian]

I have. The only time the SC referred to an actual law was when they rejected the argument that this was parliamentary business as defined in the Bill of Rights.

Thank you. I have been looking for an example to explain the difference between reading something and understanding it.

 

[lomiller]

What happened to the 317 members and the coalition they formed with DUP?

They got 289 votes today.
Where did they go?

If you had paid attention to what people were telling you over the last 20 pages you would understand.

-A majority of Parliament opposes a no deal Brexit.
-BJ is trying to prevent that that majority from voting on things that would
prevent a no deal Brexit by obstructing, suspending or Proroguing Parliament.
-Everyone sees through him, so the people who oppose a no deal Brexit are going to vote against obstructing proroguing or suspending Parliment.

 

[Vixen]

A popular lass even in death then.

Dave

I recently fell and injured my chest. This really made my ribs hurt. Don't do it!

 

[Nessie]

There was no existing law - common or otherwise.

The SC didn't refer to any existing laws. They just said that the matter was "justiciable" meaning that they had authority to adjudicate on the matter.

OK, so if the court has the authority to adjudicate on proroguing, that means proroguing is a law, not a parliamentary procedure.

From the House of Commons Library website;

https://commonslibrary.parliament.u...preme-court-on-the-prorogation-of-parliament/

"On 11 September, the High Court of England and Wales held that the legality of the prorogation was not justiciable in a court of law. That meant that the High Court had determined the question to be beyond the scope of judicial review. On the same day, the Court of Session in Scotland reached the opposite conclusion. It determined that the issue was justiciable."

That disagreement is why it went to the Supreme Court. The SC ruled in favour of the Scottish Court of Session;

"The Court held that the power to prorogue Parliament is a prerogative power: “a power recognised by the common law and exercised by the Crown… on advice” of the Prime Minister."

From the judgement itself;

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2019-0192-judgment.pdf

"30.Before considering the question of justiciability, there are four points that we should make clear at the outset. First, the power to order the prorogation of Parliament is a prerogative power: that is to say, a power recognised by the common law and exercised by the Crown."

Prorogation is a common law.

 

[dudalb]

It's being reported that Johnson is planning to invoke the supremacy of EU law over UK law in order to avoid asking for an extension

Man, that would win the hypocrite of the year award.

This is going into Monty Python loony territory now.

 

[Nessie]

You do realise there are 3 different systems of law in the UK don't you?

Yes.

English, Northern Irish and Scottish law.

England & Wales, NI and Scotland.

Scottish law is different from English law in its derivation and application.

There are also many similarities and many laws which apply to the whole of the UK, for example the Road Traffic Act 1988.

Indeed that was one of the reasons the Supreme Court became involved as the Scottish Court of Session ruled the prorogation of Parliament illegal.

Whilst courts in E&W and NI had ruled it was not a matter for the courts.

So there is no such thing as "UK common law".

Yes there is, for example, rape and of course prorogation.

 

[GlennB]

Boris Johnson
PM referred to police watchdog over Jennifer Arcuri allegations

Almost funny.