The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

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The knife that would've made the small wound and the bloody imprint was also compatible with the larger wound. Another way of putting it is a single knife at the scene covered in blood was compatible with every wound on the victim. But who knows what that could suggest. It's too subtle.
 
And of course (as I alluded to in my previous post), the very next question that any competent jurist would ask at this point is:
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So, in short, the various courts (up to and including the SC panel) in the Guede trial process had absolutely no evidence of any sort upon which to base their "judicial fact" that Guede had not actively participated in the fatal stabbing in the neck of Meredith Kercher.

If you read through the Giordano MR for Guede's SC appeal it's difficult to tell who the defendant is. It's clear great effort went into ensuring Amanda and Raffaele, specifically, were identified as co-conspirators during Guede's trials even though that was never within the courts remit. It's especially troubling since neither Amanda or Raffaele had any representation during those trials.
 
The knife that would've made the small wound and the bloody imprint was also compatible with the larger wound. Another way of putting it is a single knife at the scene covered in blood was compatible with every wound on the victim. But who knows what that could suggest. It's too subtle.

:D

The ONLY reason the 'two knife' claim was made by the prosecution was because Finzi had no idea what size knife he should have been collecting and wound up grabbing one that was incompatible with all but one wound. Oops...

Can you imagine the **** Finzi had to deal with for picking such a large knife. His boss must have reamed him a new one... "you idiot, what were you thinking??! Why didn't you just grab a friggin meat clever, for god's sake?! Imbecile!"
 
The one act that revealed just how unprepared these clowns were for investigating a murder like this is Finzi's taking that single knife from a drawer full of knives because of his 'gut instinct'. Unbelievable.

The claim by the police that they could smell bleach in RS's apartment also bothers me. Were they ever put to the test by identifying the odor of bleach from lysoform? Not that I'm aware of.
 
The one act that revealed just how unprepared these clowns were for investigating a murder like this is Finzi's taking that single knife from a drawer full of knives because of his 'gut instinct'. Unbelievable.

The claim by the police that they could smell bleach in RS's apartment also bothers me. Were they ever put to the test by identifying the odor of bleach from lysoform? Not that I'm aware of.

I've always felt the random selection of a knife and the 'observation' that the place smelled of bleach were clear indicators of a rehearsal. I believe they went there with the intent of coming back with the murder knife, regardless of whether it was really THE murder knife, and the bleach comment was just to cement the deal.

Similarly, Capezzali's comment about hearing two people running in different directions was another clear example of a rehearsal. There was absolutely no way that woman, who had hearing issues, could discern multiple people running in two different directions through that window. She was coached.

As was Curatolo and Quintavalle. There is zero credibility in any of their accounts. Capezzali might have been credible if she stopped at just hearing a scream.
 
I've always felt the random selection of a knife and the 'observation' that the place smelled of bleach were clear indicators of a rehearsal. I believe they went there with the intent of coming back with the murder knife, regardless of whether it was really THE murder knife, and the bleach comment was just to cement the deal.

Similarly, Capezzali's comment about hearing two people running in different directions was another clear example of a rehearsal. There was absolutely no way that woman, who had hearing issues, could discern multiple people running in two different directions through that window. She was coached.

As was Curatolo and Quintavalle. There is zero credibility in any of their accounts. Capezzali might have been credible if she stopped at just hearing a scream.

I think the police really did smell something: lysoform. I don't think that was rehearsed or coached. But their failure to distinguish it from lysoform when they found both bleach and lysoform was pure ineptitude.

Capezzali is a different matter. I think Fois suggested things to her just as he did Curatolo and Quintavalle in an effort to get a story. They may well have come to believe their stories just as Amanda came to think she really did have amnesia as was suggested to her by Donnino.
 
These are two separate points. Of course Meredith is 'legally dead' but as of now, no one is convicted of the actual act of wielding the knife that killed her.

According to judicial fact, Guede is only convicted of being an accessory even though there is no evidence of anyone else in that room but him.
Nah! There are judicial facts and there are actual facts in this case. Of course Meredith is actually dead, but how can Meredith be "legally dead" if no-one was ever "legally" identified as the killer. IMO M/B failed to determine who the actual killer was, which in turn fails to give us any real closure on the case.

Hoots
 
Well, we all know that there were multiple killers so I'm sure the evidence they must have left behind will be discovered any day now. We'll hear about it around the same time that Mignini posts RS's and AG's apology and the M/B verdict is challenged as being illegal in the Italian courts.
 
Well, we all know that there were multiple killers so I'm sure the evidence they must have left behind will be discovered any day now. We'll hear about it around the same time that Mignini posts RS's and AG's apology and the M/B verdict is challenged as being illegal in the Italian courts.

At the same time I hope we'll hear about one, just one, forensic-DNA expert who sustains Stefanoni's forensic work and conclusions. They've only presented two, one who admits Stefanoni had not followed international testing protocols, and the other who includes the caveat that he'd not seen the negative controls.

It's only been 4 1/2 years since the final, definitive acquittals, and almost 10 years since the end of the first trial.

Maybe they need more time to come up with this stuff.
 
At the same time I hope we'll hear about one, just one, forensic-DNA expert who sustains Stefanoni's forensic work and conclusions. They've only presented two, one who admits Stefanoni had not followed international testing protocols, and the other who includes the caveat that he'd not seen the negative controls.

It's only been 4 1/2 years since the final, definitive acquittals, and almost 10 years since the end of the first trial.

Maybe they need more time to come up with this stuff.

Oh, ye of little faith. Any day now. Any day.
 
Her standard operating procedure is avoidance and distraction.

ETA: Speaking of which, has Vixen found that David Marriot-Curt Knox-$2 million PR campaign evidence yet? For something 'readily available' it's sure taking her a long time.

Sorry I haven't been doing your research for you, as per usual. However, life got in the way and I had to attend a burial, arrange a party and have said party, together with sorting out various effects, taking loads of stuff to the landfill, assembling flat pack furniture, etc.

Some might call this 'avoidance'.
 
Honest question -- are there mental disorders where people lie and do not even realize they lie? I've met a handful of people like this, and I always assumed they knew they were lying and just covering it up with more lies. But there are... extreme cases apparently, and I'm wondering if there are conditions where the person does not even consciously realize it?

Yes, Amanda Knox is one such person. She knows she's lying but sees nothing immoral in it.
 
If that stain was determined to be Guede's semen, I wonder how Massei would have explained its presence? I still find it unbelievable that a suspected semen stain between the legs of the victim was not seen as a potential primary piece of evidence in a rape/ murder.

It was Raff who was terrified of it being tested.
 
Just for giggles, I had a look at TJMK's Front Page. The current offering is an attack on Malcolm Gladwell's book Talking to Strangers by The Machine who is attempting to expose Gladwell's 'lies'. First up: mixed blood. Yep, you read that right. MIXED BLOOD with Amanda having "copious blood loss". Hoo boy. Does TM bother to mention that not a single court called it 'mixed blood' because it's forensically impossible to determine her blood from her DNA? Nah. As evidence, he trots out Garofano, the lone 'go to' expert on this for the PGP with whom not a single forensic expert agrees. You would assume that the fact that no other expert agrees with Garofano might be a clue for TM and other PGP. But no.


Does TM bother to include the fact that no trace of blood was found in Filomena's room as confirmed by negative TMB test? Nah.

I could go on but you get the idea. TM is just trotting out more disproved/unproved nonsense. I have to wonder why TM feels the need to spend so much time just repeating the same nonsense to his tiny, tiny audience? No one is looking to decide on AK's and RS's guilt or innocence anymore. People have already made up their minds or just don't care. So why all the time and effort? The miniscule TJMK diehards are just not relevant anymore but they don't quite seem to kemo sabe that.

You are either ignorant of the case or - more likely - know very well the pair did it together with Guede but enjoy seeing how far you can knowingly spin out your PR.
 
While differences in cultural "expectations" might well have played a part vis-a-vis Knox in Perugia, I think the absolutely critical point here is this: things like intuition, profiling, phone tapping and so on can sometimes (maybe even often) be of real use in directing investigors towards specific individuals*.

BUT

That's all they can be. Of use in narrowing down the pool of potential suspects, and thus enabling investigators to focus their resources in a more optimal way.

What cannot and should not happen is that these kinds of "pointer" methods get magnified to being considered as evidence of guilt in and of themselves. Rather, it's then the job of investigators to go out and obtain real, hard, reliable, credible evidence. And it's only this actual evidence which should form the basis of any charging decision (and subsequent trial, if the decision is to charge).

I believe that the investigators in the Kercher murder case used methods that were probably deeply embedded in their overall approach and philosophy (and methods that, incidentally, were/are one of the very worst aspects of any inquisitorial criminal justice system). I believe that they were very well used to employing the following methodology:

1) Think of a wide selection of people who have potential links to the victim or the crime;

2) Examine each of those people in more detail. Are they unable to provide a provable alibi? Do they have potential motive? Do they have potential opportunity? Do they have potential means? Is their behaviour in front of investigators (or in phone taps) "strange" in some way?

3) If there are any people from the initial long list for whom the answer to all of the above questions is "yes", then it's probably they who committed the crime.

4) Now starts the task of finding the evidence to support the thesis that the persons(s) in (3) above did indeed commit the crime - this is where confirmation bias and tunnel vision on the part of the investigators can become a huge problem (as in the Knox/Sollecito investigation);

5) In conjunction with (4) above, the person(s) in question get brought in for interrogation, with the aim of extracting a useable (in court) confession. If they can manage to do this, it's solid gold (since the Italian courts historically treat all confessions as automatically reliable and credible....);

6) Once they have a confession, and a few pieces of supporting evidence (which, remember, may very well be the product of misinterpretation due to tunnel vision and/or confirmation bias), conviction is almost a formality.


And now, here's the thing: very often (in fact, probably almost always), this approach ends up with the investigators identifying the correct culprit, and the courts correctly convicting them. If, for example, a house is burgled, and the police recognise the MO as that of a recidivist burglar in their town, and the burglar cannot account for his movement around the time of the crime, and the burglar is nervous and evasive when police go round to talk with him.... well then, it's a pretty fair chance that this is the culprit. They may get the man to confess in a subsequent interrogation, and they may very well subsequently find corroborating physical evidence or witness testimony. And that evidence may well be enough, in totality, to see the man correctly convicted of the crime. And the investigators can slap themselves on the back for a) a job well done (the true culprit has been convicted and sentenced) and b) a vindication of their operating methods.



What appears to me to have happened in the Knox/Sollecito investigation is that they got to step (3) in my list above, and decided that:

a) Knox had to have been involved in some material way in the murder (though I think it's very clear that at that stage, they believed Knox had enabled (and subsequently covered up for) the actual murderer, rather than having directly participated in the attack herself);

b) by direct extension, Sollecito had to have, at the very least, lied to them about Knox's whereabouts on the night of the murder, and might also have had some sort of involvement in the murder itself;

c) therefore, both Knox and Sollecito had to have committed one or more serious criminal offences; and

d) Knox (and maybe also Sollecito) had to be able to tell them the identity of the man who had actually attacked and stabbed Kercher.


At that point, I think they crossed the Rubicon: they decided that their deductions were correct, and they set out to "prove" their deductions - first via forced confessions, and then via the (as they thought) inevitable physical evidence and witness testimony.

And the rest is (a very sorry) history........



* In the same way as, say, it's objectively more reasonable for security officials at airports to single out for enhanced searching a young man of Middle Eastern or South Asian ethnicity who's looking nervous and travelling alone.... as opposed to, say, a caucasian woman in her 50s who's travelling with her daughter and her daughter's two young children

Oh please. Stefanoni worked extensively in helping identify Tsunami victims of the 2004 disaster. People who volunteer their services in third world disaster areas do not tend to be narrow minded bigots.
 
Why would anyone, outside perhaps Silenzi, be touching that bra hook? Especially males? In the past, I've asked that question but the PGP just ignore it. The choices are that it's either contamination or Meredith had more than just Silenzi touching her bra hooks.

The extra random fragments of DNA were nothing more than background dust, mosly 6 - alleles (one of which was Knox' BTW on the fabric, causing her forensic defence expert to walk off her case). As you know, a lawyer can't defend you if he believes you to be guilty. Especially here, as per the evidence of his own eyes.
 
Agreed, LJ, which is why I could never get a PGP to give me a logical answer that did not support their 'no contamination' claim AND didn't basically say Meredith was fooling around with more than just Silenzi.

Don't be so silly. The DNA fragments might just have easily come from whoever packaged the bra in the factory. It might have been new and straight out of the packet. Or someone handling it in the shop before Mez bought it.
 
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